Dry, extremely curled up top leaves, weird looking veins on leaves and purple leaf stems with a touch of negligence

to provide context i’ll begin with copy pasting how things were like before i took action (putting matchheads in the soil as i didn’t have a quick way to get my hands on some sulphur that night)

"3 new plants have been seeded (they’ve been planted with biobizz light mix as a substrate) and have gotten into their early/mid flowering phase, ended up picking fastbuds’ z auto as it has more information available about it, currently the oldest of the three is presenting different symptoms at the same time, I’ll follow the list before getting more in-depth about what is going on with the plant.

strain and seed bank: z auto from fastbuds
age of plant: 40 days old, started flowering at the end of week 3
method: biobizz light mix, 3 gal pot, used fish mix for veg and currently using bio grow 2ml/l, bio bloom 2ml/l and top max1ml/l following the feeding schedule on biobizz website, due to leaf discoloration did 1ml/l foliar with fish mix and it slightly helped to regain colour, next day we got back at standard decoloration, currently waiting one more day before watering.
ph: 6/6.5 using 2 calibrated ph pens, going bio atm so no tds readings
indoor or outdoor: indoor, 80x80cm base and 190cm in height
light system: 2 el cheapo led boards, currently giving them 40dli
actual wattage draw of lights: 120 currently, 160 at peak
light schedule: 20/4
temps: 23c
humidity: noticed that it got to 70% for a couple of weeks, currently 50/55%
ventilation system: fan hanging from above, 6" inline fan and ceramic heating system inside the tent (lung room heating is not possible
co2: air levels

current issues:
stunted growth (unless I’ve been spoiled by the growth put on during the flowering stretch)
lighting of shade of the top leaves, now it’s moving down, some leaves on the parts hit by the light grow some burn spots
marbling effect on the leaves, close to tobacco mosaic virus but not quite that
some leaves are warped
rust spots?
stems of leaves taking on a purplish colour just on the tops

current theories:
septoria on some leaves?
potential light burn? lowered the dli to 35 to see if the leaves get a bit greener
cal mag problems?

pics of that day:









"

that day i ended up thinking about it a bit more and ended up with 5 possible conclusions:
molybdenum-
sulphur-
calmag-
iron-
nitrogen-

given what i had at the time i chose to start ruling out what i could, thus nitrogen by putting some fish mix in the feeding water and sulphur by putting matchheads in the soil

and who would’ve thought that THAT wasn’t a good idea.

results of that:










suffice to say first thing that I’ve done after seeing this was a complete flush and ended it with a watering at 1/3rd strength of the recommended values from the grow chart, (still using fabric pots so overwatering shouldn’t be a worry) ordered some alg-a-mic to do foliar and cal-mag to add next watering (if there will be one)

whereas i can understand a part of as to why the leaves look like that (thin and wilted) due to the nitrogen toxicity no matter how much i look around i cannot understand what is going on with the rest, the curling? no fan is pointed towards them nor is there strong airflow, the lights haven’t been touched at all and are still set to provide 35DLI, the veins looking either dry or sketched by a non medicated guy with parkinson trying to draw a straight line, the changes in tonality? all of the rust spot/dots now presenting themselves like crazy?

I’m completely out of my water and i can’t seem to make up for it just with article readings, to who knows more than i do, what are your considerations/theories as to what is going on with these plants?

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Hopefully ypu can get this cleared up. First thing I would do allow it to dry out. Then I’d start dialing in pH pretty well. @Lostgirl might be able to help you. Shes very methodical and adept at identifying issues.

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How many match stick heads did you put in the soil?

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Lil advice for the future. When trying to pinpoint/fix a problem add amendments individually and wait for a reaction or else you may have new issues or even just not actually learn what helped and what didn’t. You could be adding three things it didn’t need when it was just a lil over watered and having nute lock or something similar. Good luck

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Flush like a mother and start your nutrients on hf strength. And just know that fabric parts do not make it impossible to over water it’s extremely easy to overwater. Could have been the issue from the start. It can cause lockout and make your microbes die off making your ph drift more severe. Then u could have made it a whole new problem. It’s so annoying I am using wicking pots. :rofl:

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Answer these simple questions the best you can.
If you do not know, or do not use something; Just say so; Or post
NA (non applicable)

-What strain, Seed bank, or bag seed (photo or auto)
-Age of plant
-Method: Soil w/salt, Organic soil, Hydroponics, Aquaponics, KNF
-Vessels: Type and capacity of container (fabric, plastic, etc)
-PH and TDS of Water, Solution, runoff (if Applicable)
-PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution if applicable
-Method used to measure PH and TDS
-Indoor or Outdoor if indoor, size of grow space
-Light system List brand and wattage/spectrum
-Actual wattage draw of lights
-Current Light Schedule
-Temps; Day, Night
-Humidity; Day, Night
-Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size
-AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier,
-Co2; Yes, No

If growing Hydro some additional questions:

-DWC? RDWC? Autopots? Ebb and Flow? Other?
-Distance of liquid below net pot (DWC)
-Temperature of reservoir
-TDS of nutrient solution
-Amount of air to solution

Always try to upload a clear picture in white light of any issues you may have to allow the community to assist you.

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sorry for the spam of deleted posts but i forgot to use quotes and now I’m making things tidy

sorry for the late reply, gotten my hands on a 2nd ph pen and calibrated it separately from the other one so that now i have 2 different inputs for accuracy + got a thermometer so that i can take into account the temp and how that affects the potential ph given the temp differences between within the tent and outside, will see how things go with the next watering

total was 21 distributed in 3 pots, the 2 small ones got 6 each and the big plant got the remaining 9, taken them out before the flushing ofc

yeah that wasn’t a smart approach from me, just went out of habit of doing troubleshooting in the kitchen where if something goes awry you always have some extra on the side to try again

oh done that already and things are already looking better thankfully, will see how to deal with a low count of microbes, potentially speaking i could put some fresh soil on top and hope that in a couple of waterings things will be back on par

never heard of wicking pots, gonna read a bit about it later on but thx for naming them, I’ll see if they can be mcgyvered from fabric pots

-What strain, Seed bank, or bag seed: z auto from fastbuds
-Age of plant: 44 days old the one that is all clawed up, the other 2 are 37 days old
-Method: soil biobizz light mix
-Vessels: 3 gallon fabric pots
-PH and TDS of Water (7.4 from tap, 6.5 after doing correction and with ph) Solution, runoff (haven’t measured as I’m going mostly bio and that as far as I’ve understood makes this reading non viable for diagnosis)
-PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution if applicable
-Method used to measure PH and TDS: 2 ph pens
-Indoor or Outdoor if indoor, size of grow space: indoor grow tent 3ftx3ftx6.3ft (90x90x190cm)
-Light system List brand and wattage/spectrum: 2 generic lead boards, full spectrum at 80w peak usage each
-Actual wattage draw of lights: 80 for each one
-Current Light Schedule: 20/4
-Temps; Day, Night: 23c
-Humidity; Day, Night 55% and 70% when the dehumidifier is full
-Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size: an hanging from above, 6" inline fan and ceramic heating system inside the tent (lung room heating is not possible)
-AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier: dehumidifier
-Co2: nah.

little update for y’all: things are better, as in the plants aren’t actively self destructing themselves as of now, for the leaves that haven’t “thinged” the signs of nitrogen toxicity have mostly gone away and they seem to be getting back on track, here are some pictures, as always I’ll write a bit more after the pics














ssso, for the leaves that are not “thinged” they seem to have gotten back on track, still a relatively light shade of green but i assume that is due to the really low nute mix that they are currently being fed while they recover from the shock
the other ones that were clawed they still are like they were before, they aren’t exactly dry, tried to bend some of them and they bent without breaking + in some of them there are still green zones so maybe some form of recovery is possible? for what i can see the ones that have the entirety of their veins frazzled are still stuck in yesterday’s condition, is it time to try and do some defoliation + possibly some branch bending to make it so that the healthy leaves on the lower canopy can be brought closer to the grow lights?

another thing i was thinking of trying to use some phed distilled water and to foliar it to see if by introducing some water with no dissolved minerals in the leaves (and maybe some alg a mic when it arrives home) can help dilute the high mineral concentration in the leaves that are half dead to give them a better chance at recovering (if that is even possible + i assume i gotta find the ph the water to the ph of the chlorophyll to reduce the adjustments the plants need to do (given that the plants can even cope with this given their current conditions))

ideas? thoughts? plans?

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The soil you use is filled with peat moss (lowers pH and is not a friend of cannabis from what I understand) not to mentioned that you put unregulated sulfur (instantaneously not to mention drastically reduces pH) is the reason your plants fried the way they did. In my opinion you sent your pH in the soil to incredibly low values locking it up.

@Qubaca is correct about flushing the :poop: out of the soil to reset the soil. This would help to get rid of all the excessive sulfur as well.

With the amount of water needed to properly flush this would definitely compromise your microbial life in the soil as well so that will need to be replenished immediately.

This is an autoflower that doesn’t handle stress very well. Once you’ve assured your soil is reset by flushing with 6.5 tap water I would go in with a strong dose of feed at least half strength to replenish the NPK

I would expect little to no leaf recovery as they look pretty fried.

It looks as if you’re feeding organically (at least I think) and I know nothing about organic feeding so I’m really no help.

I’ve seen worse bounce back and finish when the issues are rectified immediately with the proper techniques. Unfortunately, nothing familiar with organic I don’t want to make any recommendations to add fuel to a fire

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I will also point out that running low light levels will increase the chances of nutrient burn. Running 160 watts total for the space is less than needed to properly flower out one plant.

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damn that’s a lot of info, thx for the answer + i know which strain not to grow next time XD

current plans now that the alg a mic has arrived, (which theoretically speaking should be biobizz branded micronutrients, worst case scenario I’ll get a little canister of micro from advanced nutried and I’ll call it a day) is one last flush just to be sure, then add a new layer of fresh soil to reintroduce some microbes and then I’ll give the first proper nuted watering of this week.

no pics for today but I’ve removed some of the completely burnt leaves away from the plant that didn’t show any sort of improvement, left the ones with a bit of green and currently considering if it’d be ideal to cut off the burnt sections from the leaves to avoid fruitless light absorbtion, what is your take on this approach?

that’s news to me, thought that too much light isn’t something that the plants can manage and that they’d be more likely to get light stressed if you gave them more than they can take, thus it’d be better to reduce the amount of light when they’re not in tip-top shape, you say that instead going too “light” (30/35dli instead of 45) would give problems to the plant’s metabolism?

i was mostly focused over using DLI with a lux sensor moreso than raw wattage out of the lights as per the same power draw different LED’s can give different results, even if 45DLI can be easily achieved overall would you recommend getting another led panel? not to come across as snarky or the likes but what would the logic behind that be? better canopy coverage at a lower power % on each light’s dimmer?

Plants can’t metabolize salts well without adequate light. Manifests as nute burn.

I agree that DLI is key, but methods of measuring it are not necessarily accurate.

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