Decarb first then water bath, then infusion?

Troubleshooting
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I am a very new grower and I am just getting around to making gummies out of my summer grow and I’m a little confused. I have decarbed it, although it’s still c green using a mbm machine set at 250 for 1:30 minutes … Their manual says to decarb for 10 additional minutes, so I did that. It’s so green. I don’t want to lose THC, so what’s recommended at this point?

I would really like to get rid of more chlorophyll to decrease the out taste and have read that I should do a waterbath in order to do so.

I would assume the next step would be to do the waterbath before infusion?

When should I grind it?

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If you want to extract oil for edibles I would recommend doing a QWET (Quick Wash Ethanol Tincture). How you perform it dictates what is extracted.

Cooking flower in oil will always extract a large amount of chlorophyll and does make your edibles taste ‘weedy’. You also don’t get full extraction of THC using oil. I do a full spectrum oil for edibles using QWET and a tabletop still called a “Source Turbo”. It recovers the alcohol for reuse. Doing this requires the use of 190 proof ethanol.

A water bath or water cure is supposed to reduce harsh notes when smoking. For edibles you won’t see a difference.

Never ever grind flower for edibles. It exposes much more green plant material to the solvent thus increasing ‘weedy’ taste.

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Thanks! :blush: I have read so much information researching I became overwhelmed with everything. So, rather than mess up my weed, I thought I would ask!

I think I made the right choice!

I appreciate your input,
Karen

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Just throwing this out there as a point of interest in case you care about such things.
MN just legalized this year, but:
home extraction of cannabis concentrate by use of volatile solvent prohibited
So to stay legal in MN, it’s pretty much just infusing or pressing.
Don’t know your laws or if it matters to you… just one of those “fine print” things.
Carry on :grin:

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Here is the actual law from their own books…

Subd. 72.

Volatile solvent.

“Volatile solvent” means any solvent that is or produces a flammable gas or vapor that, when present in the air in sufficient quantities, will create explosive or ignitable mixtures. Volatile solvent includes but is not limited to butane, hexane, and propane.

I don’t think Everclear would fall under this description. Its nowhere near the level of volatility of the gasses listed like propane.

Most states don’t want the average user to be doing butane extractions in the home. And I agree with that. I don’t want my next door neighbor playing with that as he’s not the brightest bulb in the box.

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Everclear does not fall into that category… I don’t know a state that DOESN’T make ‘volitile solvents’ illegal. People blow up their homes with butane and crap like that.

What Are Inherently Hazardous Substances?

According to the law, a hazardous substance is any chemical or product with a flash point at or lower than 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Some examples listed in this statute include butane, propane, and diethyl ether.

To understand why these substances are hazardous, it’s important to learn how they are used to create concentrates. To manufacture concentrates with butane, for example, the marijuana is placed in a column with a filter at one end. The butane then passes through the column, removing the cannabinoids and terpenes from the marijuana flower as it goes. This process creates a butane-cannabis solution. Placing the solution inside a hot oven will force the butane to evaporate, leaving only the concentrate behind. However, it will also produce butane gas, which is extremely dangerous. Because butane gas can be volatile and cause large explosions, it is illegal to manufacture concentrates with this substance.

Is it Ever Legal to Manufacture Marijuana Concentrates?

The law only prohibits the manufacture of concentrates using hazardous substances. But, the problem is that the law does not include information on non-hazardous methods of extraction. Although not specifically mentioned in the law, certain extraction methods such as ice water extraction should not be considered dangerous since they do not involve any potentially hazardous substances.

(I believe Everclear Flashpoint is around 175 F)
The only other thing to consider… is 190 Everclear legally sold in your state? I have to go to the next statae over to buy it but it doesn’t mean I cannot possess it.

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Excellent post @Caligurl

Same in Missouri, the wording of some sections is so vague or ambiguous its maddening.
I doubt for someone who is just providing for their own needs in a legal state that law enforcement would bother to pursue anything on an individual level. I am allowed 6 flowering plants, but what if I have 8? They don’t actually inspect grow rooms though when you get a permit you agree to let them.
And besides, we who grow can make a single plant produce a lot of product.

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Yes, I am in Illinois and I can and have bought it.

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Thanks for sharing that information.

Thank goodness I am in Illinois. We can buy 151 Everclear here.

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Great discussion and some fair points. I had to do some digging to both learn and confirm.

So first off, Everclear is grain alcohol, aka ethanol. Also sold as poisonous, methylated, denatured alcohol, great for camping stoves, cleaning, etc. It also works in the gas tank of your car, yep, same ethanol. (It’s bad for an ICE in other ways, but that’s a dif story…)

While it’s obviously not as volatile as a pressurized gas (butane, propane, etc.), it is a volatile substance none the less. The law books list numerous examples of the vaguely worded “volatile solvent” statute, and call out not just gasses, but vapor as well. Since ethanol is widely used for extraction, and since ethanol is a volatile solvent, they have exceptions in several statutes for ethanol. Some statutes go as far as to list alcohol as one of the volatile substances only a business with a permit are allowed to use. Something even more interesting is that if you look up “Non-volatile solvent” in the law books, most all the statutes define only 2 substances; ethanol and CO2. So its accepted status as a volatile solvent needs to be considered non-volatile in defined uses, namely extraction.

From what I can gather, this all dates back many decades. Perfume companies have been using “volatile solvent” extraction for a long, long time, and yes, alcohol is listed among the volatile solvents used.

The flashpoint of ethanol is 55 degrees (it boils at 173). At room temperature, it’s most certainly “flashing off” to form “vapor” that is combustible, or it wouldn’t work so good when used as a fuel (it’s horrible for winter camping). I also don’t see any references to “hazardous substances” beyond proper containment and disposal including volatile solvents, but if it’s anything with a flashpoint below 100, then alcohol definitely fits the bill.

So… Is Everclear considered a “volatile solvent”? Absolutely!
Is Everclear a banned substance to be used for extraction? Depends, but probably not.

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You cannot use 151. Has to be 190 proof.

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@Bubbala denatured alcohol is ethanol that’s been mixed with toxic (and more volatile) additives (like methanol, isopropyl, acetone, a ketone denaturant and, (hopefully not, but many times it is) naptha) . Ethanol — also known as grain alcohol — is alcohol at its most basic. However, denatured alcohol is not fit for human consumption because of these additives and is instead used as a lower-cost solvent or fuel AND it is more volatile due to the additives. So you cannot say ethanol is sold as mehylated, denatured alcohol used for fuel as they are two totally different solvents.

I use a Source Turbo. The vapors are not allowed to escape into the air (it is the vapors that ignite, not the alcohol itself).

Even if you don’t use a Source Turbo (or similar), the concentration of those vapors must be very high. And do you worry about serving high content alcohol to your house guests or do you make them go outside in a well-ventilated area to consume LOL

As far as talking scientifically about volatility, I am not a chemist and there is a lot of info out there so I am going to phone my chemist friend @JaneQP

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Yep. I know it. I couldn’t edit my post for some reason. :grin:

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Once your trust level goes up you will be able to. Until then if you need some maintenance just tag me or one of the other mods.

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Ok thanks!

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Thought we might get a chemist showing us the cool “Whoosh” experiment with alcohol.

EDIT: I just found this one of a guy comparing 151 to 190 proof. Interesting.

I’d say that meets the “vapor that, when present in the air in sufficient quantities, will create explosive or ignitable mixture” criteria.

It’s been a few days, so I’ll go ahead and post this anyway though.

Ethanol is fuel. Fuel for race cars, rocket ships, and stoves (most of my experience), except you can’t sell grain alcohol without beverage and liquor implications (license, taxes, etc), so it needs to be denatured. They add poisons and bad tasting stuff to avoid all the beverage hurdles, and still sell it as fuel and cleaner. It’s not to make it any better as a fuel, it’s just to make it sellable. It’s actually in the name. According to Merriam Webster:

denature

2. to deprive of natural qualities: change the nature of: such as

  • a. to make (alcohol) unfit for drinking (as by adding an obnoxious substance) without impairing usefulness for other purposes. (bold emphasis mine)

Denaturing alcohol retains the fuel properties of ethanol. It doesn’t turn it into a fuel. Now do some of the various additives they use add to the volatility? Hard to say. I wouldn’t rule it out, but it’s not the primary factor, and is so varied it’s hard to judge. I’ve seen 5%, all the way to 50-60% methyl alcohol added, at which point one has to wonder if it’s even denatured ethanol anymore, or just diluted methanol. The race cars switched from methanol to ethanol years ago and report better performance from the ethanol, so I’d say it’s highly unlikely that denatured carries more oomph than straight ethanol.

Ethanol is still the preferred choice for stoves from a safety perspective, as it’s the only one not toxic. It’s just too pricey for most backpackers (or whoever) to bother with. Straight methyl alcohol in the form of yellow HEET was my go to, it has less soot. but it’s highly toxic, even through the skin. If you haven’t heard from your friend and still wanted to learn more on alcohols, the backpacker forums have tons of info on the various effectiveness of them as fuels. Lots of testing has been done, albeit mostly anecdotal.

As far as drinks on the patio… I personally don’t really care what anyone does in their home. I don’t even care if they care if it’s legal or not. I just brought up some legal irregularities that makes a person go :thinking:

That’s all. I didn’t realize there was ever any question as to the volatility of 190 proof everclear. Maybe folks out there aren’t giving it the due respect it should have and maybe this was a good conversation that was needed for everybody’s safety.

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Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I have great respect.

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You can infuse mct coconut oil using a small crock pot on low and a medium sized tea tincture. (The larger sized ones)

There are also automatic devices that do all the work for you. They have temp control and timers to take the worry out. Levooil has several options and if you search “ECRU decarb infuser” on Amazon, they have different option.

I own a Levo II and while the build quality isnt perfect, i use it to make CBD Honey and oil tinctures.

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Thanks for the info. :wink:

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@Bubbala has you covered.

Thanks for the tag @Caligurl

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