Dealing With Crowded 2x3 Tent

Grow Support
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Lower foliage removal allows better airflow, and visual inspection. Plants naturally shed their lower leaves, they turn yellow, wilt then drop. If those big fan leaves aren’t getting enough light, they’re not helping the plant. Unless the plant has a deficiency and then it will actually pull nourishment from those leaves. If left on the plant the dying organic matter is a prime location for fungal growth. Being able to see and inspect the plants becomes critical in late flowering. Finding and removing yellowing leaves is important, before they start to rot.

By removing them, you remove breeding ground for fungus, allowing better air flow up through the canopy. In a tent air is drawn in from the bottom out through the top, nice evenly distributed air flow helps transpiration and helps evacuate the humid air out of the environment.

Just as an added benefit, which some say is debatable, done early enough the plant will focus it’s energy into the remaining flower sites. Just like any stress, it can trigger the “procreate mode”.

In a drought a pecan tree produces the most pecans. It senses possible death and does it’s best to procreate. Cannabis is the same way. The most effective is probably the last 3 or 4 week to cool it off, it senses the end is near and does it’s best to reproduce. UV is used to cause stress for the same reason. (in addition to fungal control)

Defoliating early isn’t the same as cooling it down, but it will help jump start the process. But again, this is just a side benefit. The main reason is air flow and even light penetration through the canopy.

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No matter how powerful your grow light is it won’t penetrate to the bottom flower sites.

Therefore, we typically remove the lower sites to ensure all resources go to the flower sites that actually do have a chance to produce legit flower. The larf just never fattens up and never gets as resinous as the upper flower sites. This is actually true even if you add side lighting…even then cannabis will heavily favor the development of larger flowers at its topmost flower sites.

As others have mentioned above there are plenty of other benefits like improved airflow and a reduction in the chance of mold and mildew.

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Asinine? Defoliation is asinine? Was a joke.

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These are autos so cloning isn’t really an option. I understand the case being made for defoliation, removal of lower bud sites, ect. but I still don’t see much evidence that it’s beneficial. aside from improving airflow to prevent mold/rot if needed. The only science I can find seems to indicate that removal of any healthy material is detrimental to the health of the plant and the production of flower.

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It does hurt the plant…how can it not?

That said it’s about a balance of many factors when you grow indoors. The benefit you mention is huge all by itself. A breakout of mold or PM can devistate a crop and can be damn near impossiblle to fix in flower.

Also, you don’t have to defoal if it doesnt appeal :grinning:

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Be careful with the context of your research. Are they talking about the same specific situation?

Maybe read what I wrote again. And research stress effects on cannabis.

We’re not trying to grow the healthiest most beautiful plant according to horticulturist, we’re trying to get the biggest fattest most potent buds possible from the genetics of our seed / clone.

When a pine tree gets stuck by lightning it damages the tree… no doubt right.
The pine tree sends tons of sap to that wound to heal and survive. To a horticulturist that is a bad damaged tree. To a firewood dealer, that tree is full of “fat lighter” which is super valuable to him.

It’s all about what you want your end result to be… perspective. :wink:

What’s valuable to you? Do you want to look at a pretty healthy plant or do you want to smoke some big fat potent buds?

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Shave those legs :eyes:

The extra reassurance, you’re doing mold prevention for the case of a few scraggly buds

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They’re beautiful plants but theres so many lower leaves touching soil, some practically useless, they’re just taxing the plant

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Check this out one guys opinion

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I appreciate all the opinions and advice given thus far. I do clean up the dying leaves and whatnot but haven’t started cutting away any healthy material, yet. I think I will do VERY LIGHT thinning of the bottom 1/3rd and maybe try to spread branches out a tad, although there’s not really any room to spread.

Is there any scientific data available that shows that the lower bud sites and shade leaves have a parasitic effect on the final size and quality of the larger, primary buds? I can see why people might assume so, but the science that I’ve found this far seems to state otherwise. That removal of healthy plant tissue can cause the plant to try to regrow the tissue removed instead of directing the energy toward building the primary flowers.

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I think something to keep in mind, no there is not a lot of quality, peer-reviewed scientific literature on the growth of cannabis in small indoor settings. Given the plant’s legal status in the past 100 years, you won’t find a lot. If you want to rely solely on scientific evidence, you’ll need to wait a least a few years.

Hence the popularity of forums like this one, and the popularity of “bro science”. That makes it difficult to known which information is useful or not. However, this forum has some all star growers.

Scientific evidence is wonderful. I’m a fan. Anecdotal evidence and experience also have their own value. Often experience is what leads to scientific research.

There are many examples in horticulture where pruning is used the same way as in cannabis. You could likely find research on pruning fruit trees for optimal production and quality. Is that the exact same as cannabis research? No, but it can inform decisions. Same as how research on model organisms can help inform knowledge about how we humans work.

Evidence comes in many forms. Peer-reviewed, statistically significant, published information in quality journals is the gold standard. I sometimes wonder if the people publishing research on cannabis are able to grow the same quality and quantity as people on this forum. That would be interesting to find out.

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Look at every gardening video on the planet… they prune. It’s common knowledge.

Did you read any of my comments?
Did you look up anything I said?

Is there timing involved, absolutely.
Can it be done to excess absolutely.

Best wishes for ya, good luck.

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Interesting…this plant has been on the business end of a schedule 1 narcotic classification since anyone could do any actual science on it…at least in the good ole USA. The best science I’ve consumed to date has come out of Israel, but compared to other plants Cannabis is pretty new in terms of the volume of legitimate research available.

That said…at this point i honestly don’t really care what i read in a study produced by some lab folks who may or may not have an actual working relationship with the plant. I’ve been at this steady since '94 and have accumulated a degree of experiential knowlege on which i confidently rely. No lab report, no matter what it says will invalidate that experience, for me.

I don’t say that to convince you of my perspective, i say it simply to nudge you to do your own experiments…you’ll trust your own observation over what anyone else “reports”, scientist or otherwise.

In my experience, if you don’t defoliate some you will end up with a shitty, larfy bottom 1/3, maybe more, of your plant that just isn’t worth anything. It’s not dense, it’s not resinous, it’s pretty much junk. It doesnt even really hash well. I get more flowers if i don’t defoal, but i get bigger and better flowers if i do defoal (tastefully). Just my .30 cents!

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Here ya go… DOCTOR BRUCE BUGBEE

I did your research for you.

Yield Dilution

The best single resource of knowledge I know.

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The first video talks about stress increasing THC.

This video around minute 14 talks specifically about defoliation and pruning.

Max cannabis

He has a series of videos, very educational.

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Really nicely said growmie!

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I’ve done plenty of research and watched lots of Bugbee’s stuff. I appreciate your input, hope you’re not too put out. I understand that lower parts of the plant won’t produce worthwhile buds and I understand that airflow is important in a tent. What I’m still unsure of is whether cutting away healthy parts of a plant will improve the quantity AND quality of mature flowers assuming that airflow isn’t a problem.

My post was asking if I should move 1 or 2 plants outside and the replies went quickly to pruning/thinning so I assume the general consensus is to keep all three in the tent and not move any outdoors.

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Not put out, just baffled.

Did you watch the entire first vid? Towards the end he mentions “thats why we target specific stress”.

If you actually watch the video you’d realize your goal is the opposite of what is possible. Max yield and max potency are inversely related. You have to find the balance that fits your goals.

Funny thing is, I never saw either of those vids until I looked them up for you. I learned it from LISTENING to the gurus on here. When I watched them I was thinking hell anybody who reads my post are gonna think I was just typing out what he said.

I even gave you analogies.

“Any advice would be greatly appreciated” is the closing statement of the original post.

You can move them outside if you want, but I did that for years, between the mamals, caterpillars, bud rot, rain storms and other constant battles… I hope to never go back.

Seriously for your benefit, watch those vids start to finish, first thing in the morn, before you start smoking. Act like you’ve never heard anything about growing and LISTEN to what he says. Pause rewind and LISTEN two or ten times.

Your life will be sooo much easier. :grin:

It sounds like you got bad advice from somebody and just can’t let go. Relax and learn.

Your not alone I had to grow old before I realized a whole bunch of stuff my dad taught me was completely wrong. My brother still refuses to acept it.

Open your mind… (said like the belly mutation in total recall with Arnold) :crazy_face::rofl::rofl:

Edit; it’s all good seriously. :slightly_smiling_face::+1::+1:

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BTW, I’m not suggesting to mutilate them, it needs to be done within reason. At the age they’re at now target airflow.

Later more specific targeting may be done but every plant and situation is different.

My wife mentioned a good way to think about it. as far as removing lower buds.

The roots only produce so much sugar (THC), lets say 10lbs.
Do you want 10lbs of sugar divided between 50 buds, unevenly, or do you want 10lbs of sugar divided between 10 buds evenly?

The goal for most folks with LST / topping removing lower larfy buds is 10lbs 10 buds. You can do yours however you want. :wink: :slightly_smiling_face:

Timing and taking the right stuff and leaving the right stuff matters. All the info is on this site.

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This post definitely went down a tangent! What did you end up doing with the plants? Going to try putting one or two outside? Did you try any pruning?