I like to do seed runs in the winter when all my fall outdoor crops are in. Anyone else take advantage of the downtime to make seeds?
I usually do it outside in a temporary greenhouse. This year was so windy and snowy I had to move it to the garage.
Last yearâs outdoor harvest was so good I can do exactly that. I am currently working on a White Widow feminized seed project.
I donât yet but it is a goal of mine, maybe for next winter.
Got any advice for the seed-curious folks like me?
I could not respond for 24 hours. @CurrDogg420 sound familiar. Ha
So you had to go and bait me like that. I think I will just cut and paste from my old thread âitâs seeds time everyoneâ. I hope itâs not too boring Currdogg. He removed you from the thread so it makes less sense in places without your dialog. It was too much to retype it all again. AnywayâŚ
Itâs seeds time everyone
I held on to a male of my strawberry cough x Durban poison f1s. He is chucking his pollen on the milk crate of honor today or tomorrow. I put the mom Durban and a sister from the original straw cough pack. I also put in all the f1 cross sisters I kept clones of.
All winter long I do seed runs in my temporary greenhouse. I quit seeding select branches of the summer crop because no matter how careful I was I would always seed out the plants. I would keep males offsite at a friends house miles away. I would go cut stamens in the paper bags at his house. I would shower and change my clothes when I got home. Then tie the bag onto select branches. At harvest time all I would have is a plant loaded up with seeds, and the plant next to it, and the plant next to that. Be careful a little pollen goes a LONG ways. It was not worth risking the fall harvest in my opinion. So this is my solution. I do winter greenhouse seedings on little baby clones. That way I have great control over what Iâm chucking. I am not fucking up anyone elseâs crop downwind with pollen because everythingâs in by now. And itâs just fun to do.
A female clone about 12â tall usually gives me about 100-200seeds. The males I just keep abused and Bansai in 4â starter pots. Thatâs why I put him up on the milk crate of honor. That way he is above all the ladies. I have keeper males I have Bansai grown for 6-7 years.
âDeleted lost question from Currdoggâ something about when I sex seedlings.
Then I reply:
This is just my experience and not the grow bible. I know there are many great ways to grow. This is just my routine and experience. I am not telling anyone they have to do, or not do anything. I love input and other tips too. But try to not be an asshole. There are nice ways to interject, suggest, and influence besides saying someone sucks and they are full of shit. My grow will keep on growing and my soil will go on living either way.
happy growing.
@CurrDogg420 , it really depends when you figure out if you have a boy, girl, or intersex plant.
When popping seeds, I like to pop them sometime around Valentineâs Day. That way I can put them outside in their 4 inch starter pots while the daylight is still short. If you live somewhere cold and snowy, then put them in the south facing discreet window. Or temporary shorten your indoor lights to 12 or 11 hours (flower). A few weeks of this interval will not fuck your plants up. It will allow you to identify boys from girls at three or four sets of leaves. It usually takes 3-4 weeks, outdoors or in the short interval grow light, to wait for them to preflower. I prefer to use the window or outdoors. You can keep your inside light on the long veg interval if you use the natural light. And then leave the plants outside or in the window until they actually show you what sex they are. That way if you get a stubborn one, youâre not holding up your lights for that one stubborn one. And you can get the rest of them right back into long interval veg with the lights. They wonât miss a beat this way if you do it on very short plants which is three or four sets of true leaves. If you did this on bigger plants it takes a lot longer to get them back vegetative again. Female or male. The trick to making this quick and painless is to do it on short little plants. Skip all aspects of veg. Like on the third set of true leaves.
Now that I know the tiny little seedling males in 4â starter pots, I tag them with a couple of tags and tape so they are well identified and not to be confused as females. (Damn crows steal my tags). As the males start to develop preflower stamens you must pinch roll them or cut it off. Like pinching back bolting basil or spinach. I found once they start opening flowers they donât usually stop. Also and more importantly, once they start popping open stamens they like to senesce and die. They are not easy to monster crop back to life like a finished female. They really seem to just die once they chuck out their pollen. Like thatâs all that they ever wanted to do in life. Anyway, pinch back any male flowers before they open and start raining pollen. Then get them back vegging under the long interval light. They will keep veg growing.
Right at this time is the first assessment and selective reducing of the boys. If any of them just smell like hemp or hay at preflower then compost them. You do want the ones that smell aromatic with terpenes. Rub the stem to see if it feels greasy, or hairy, or smelly. Or best actually have a few crystals of trichomes. Wiggle the plant in the sunlight and if they glisten (like a mirror in the sun). Those are rare jemsđ. I find I toss away 10 for every one or two potential good ones I find.
The whole collection (males and females) are kept Bansai under veg lights until spring planting. My veg lights are just a couple of cheap 13 watt LEDs (used to use T5HO, and power compacts before that). I have them up 12-13â above the soil line in old 20 gallon aquariums. I top any plants that grow up into the lights down to the first nodes boy or girl. I feed them as little as possible to minimize the growth. Lil plants donât care and are ok with it. If you feed them up you will be one with the scissors all too often in my humble opinion. Once spring comes I plant out the females and keep the males in the 4â starter pot.
The males I rehack foliage and stems (spring time) if needed. Then I rip each out of itâs 4â pot and cut the bound tangle of roots in half. Then repot into the same size pot (clean pot if any pest issues) with fresh rich soil. I do this root hack again in the fall before pollen chucking or bringing in a keeper male for the winter. The males are kept in trays together outdoor where they are kept small (under 12â) out of the way, but where I wonât forget about them.
Or at a friends you trust. They need to be checked at least weekly to make sure they do not flower. Pinch out any flowers and take notes. (Smells, trichomes, oils). If one is picky about nutes, or is a mess to grow, fuck it. You donât want your plants to do that x generations down the line.
Then around august 1st I take clones of all my keeper females for next year. They are cut from the big moms I am flowering out. I donât run perpetual mamas inside. I think it is important that the clone comes from a plant experiencing the outdoor environment. Not a mama kept inside. The outside plant adapts (heirlooms) to the local microclimate in my humble opinion. My jillybean has shortened the flower time by 3 weeks since I first got it. The only reason I know this is impeccable notes. If you want to breed you have to take notes. I log flower times after solstice, first mold, height, flavor. You will kick yourself if you have a plant question you cannot remember that would be answered by the log. Breeding is more a long game, but I find it interesting and fun. It makes me think of the plant in more ways than the bud count if that makes sense?
Of course Tag and track so you donât mix the females up. Once they root, I put them in under the veg lights and Bansai them till the next spring. I like to take 3 female clones of each so I have extra. Crowd them all into one pot, 3 cuts per 4â pot works perfectly. If you donât want to break them up later then just take 1 or the pot is not big enough. I figure: One female to seed, one to gift, and one to grow next year. (None ever die rightđ).
The potential seedling males (and any held over clone keeper males from previous years) are moved inside under veg lights too at this time. Alternatively, I also frequently move males out front directly under my street light. There is a big laurel hedge there that I nestle (hide) my males into. Right where the street light beam shines. This keeps the males from going flower, keeps them cold hardened, and I keep them hacked off short and tight. If you live somewhere cold and frosty this probably wonât work for you. Better to just pull the males in at the same time as the keeper females. Keep them all under 12â short Bansai in 4â pots nestled inside. After they root back early to mid august. (Still with me?)
The only wait now is for the main flower crop. Wait until it is in for harvest. Then I immediately put the males back out (or move from the street light) under my pop up temporary greenhouse. I throw the males up onto the milk crate of honor and let them rain pollen. All over the sacrificial extra female clones out to be seeded. I usually do this p1 boy at a time to selectively pollinate many different girls at once.
Rinse repeat until spring planting or you run out of males. You will have so many seeds.
If I end up with a larger plant that shows male, I like to just take a clone off a lower branch. Then Bansai the new boy clone. This happens to the best of us. I always get fooled once or twice every year with a surprise boy past sex determination. I find more than females, the male flowers tend to really build in the tops. The lower (think boy larf) branches rarely show stamens while the tops are yellow dusty male storm. That makes it easy to steal a clone and ditch the 4â tall dad in a big pot.
Why do I like to Bansai? I love the Bansai for high plant counts, it takes low space, low lights power draw and all on one shelf or fish tank. And then I release it out into the world every spring. I find it fun and exciting, I guess not always logically, to use the sun. I guess more of a personal challenge to do as many steps as I can naturally under the sun. Sometimes itâs fucking hard and Iâm stubborn. Thank goodness I can always turn to the lights in a pinch.
My final thoughts, on at least outdoor males, go like this. I have found that 3/4 of the male plants will sex around the summer solstice. Like If a grower just let them grow out naturally and did not preflower sex them early. Then I find the rest of the males will stamen out late August. I virtually never see males in between. (But still keep an eye out). These are the most important times to watch if you are growing new regular seeds for the boys.
Also, I must mention intersex traits thoughts as well. What I have noticed is that true intersex plants will have female flowers up in the tops when they start to flower. And then have one or two small male flowers down in the lower nodes way below the tops. Isolated from the female clusters. At the places you would first presex young seedlings. The plant will look male here despite the tops solid female flowers. This usually happens earlier in flower like week 3-4. But even later if they are below the female flowers and at an isolated node you have a hermaphroditic intersex plant.
In contrast to plants that Rodelize male âbananasâ up in the flower tops. Usually later in flower. Even on lower larf the male stamen (banana) is up at the tip of the flower cluster. Vs down isolated at a node below. These seeds tend to be randomly precious few in a plant that fully buds out. Often the grower doesnât even see the very few random seeds until consuming the final product. These rodelized âbananaâ male flowers tend to overwhelmingly produce feminized (in my humble opinion and my well tracked experience) seeds. Donât chuck them. (Usually < 20 seeds in the whole plant).
In contrast to true hermaphroditic intersex plants there will be a lot more seeds. Say if you get closer to 100 seeds. Or more. Those go right into the bird feeder.
On purposely seeded (pollinated) 12â clones I usually get 100-200 seeds each. Very little of the bud will be usable in any way. It is mostly seeds. Sacrificed to make seeds.
Donât be surprised, you will make some total shit seeds. Even with the male that you thought was the best. Chuck those, donât keep them unless they are better than what you started with. I like to go for mold resistant, and terp content. I like stinky weed. If they suck I put them in the bird feeder. If they are good I share them with my local grow buddies and they help me with the pheno hunts.
Also, if you find a keeper male you want to save, you want to have a clone ready first. What I mean is make sure to take an extra clone of any male you let go to pollen. The males will usually die once they release their pollen. I find them very difficult to re-grow. I already said that but itâs something else important to think about if you find a keeper. You want to have that clone first. If you find a male is not a keeper then fucking chuck that extra clone too. Donât keep trash.
â@CurrDogg420â âhow long do the 12â females take to produce viable seed? Is it the full 2 months or does it happen faster than that?â
I find that seeds ripen up quite a bit faster under the natural sun than the lights. Even when I used to run metal halide and sodium back in the day. Outside I find about four weeks is all thatâs needed. At a month they are hard and popping out of the dried seed bracts. Indoor itâs always closer to seven or eight weeks. Or else most the seeds are small and gray and squishy. Whatâs crazy about it, since I do my seed runs in the winter itâs always pretty cold. Where Iâm at in Seattle itâs not a freeze fest, but itâs definitely jacket weather. I find that my night times under my temporary greenhouse will often get down to the 40s, and my day temps for often not exceed 60. Even in this cold conditions the outdoor seeds ripen up in about a month. I believe the cooler temps stress the plant to finish the seeds faster. (Just a theory). I donât even worry about light frost, itâs the wind storms that make me take everyone inside for a bit. These plants will look like shit, but their seeds will be perfect. I also take notes on how well the seeded females take the cold and humid air for future selection criteria.
@CurrDogg420,
Remember when you were wondering about whether females will signal each other to flower through the roots to make other females flower faster? I still havenât noticed a correlation with female signals. But I have definitely found this to be true when there is a male present. The females seem to be able to sense his presence even before he releases the pollen. When I have them up (males) on top of the milk crate of honor, the females all lean way over towards him. Even if they are on the south side of him and he is away from the sun. Itâs pretty crazy. I also see this indoor too. If your females are leaning towards the lights. And you put a male to the outside of your tent or grow area, those ladies will lean back towards the boy. Itâs like he can summon them with a canaplant Jedi mind trick.
â@CurrDogg420 âWhat I was thinking about when I asked, was that perhaps my first grow with the regular seeds, I wouldnât do any selecting right away-â
Even if you didnât cull the males out as baby seedlings, I would still select as you approach pollination. I would rub the stems for terpy smells mainly. And remove any undelightful growth patterns. You donât want those hempy or grassy smelling males weakening what you started with. With males you get a mix of better, same and worse for all the traits we select for. Just take clones of the males ahead of time if you want to find a keeper. And chuck all the shit once you know. Even with the males I clone at two or three to a pot. And then separate them out as I need to use them for pollen.
With apple trees, you can sprout a seed off any Apple. But only like one in a 1000 will be a fruit producer thatâs sweet, big fast plump, and pest resistant. 999 of those will become crab apples and shit apples. You donât want to pollinate with crab apples and shit apples if you can easily prevent it. Know what I mean?
â@CurrDogg420 âYou had mentioned in a different thread, I think in regards to re-vegging, a process where you only partially chop down the female, and then put a male in with her.â
Yes that works great. In that thread, the grower had put a clone out to bask in the sunlight. They forgot about their clone and it sat out for too long as the days get shorter. Their clone began to have a lot of flower. Their question was about revegetate on the flowering clone. They totally do revege. And then the other thread was with somebody who had monster cropped a big female at harvest but didnât have a clone. So they left the lower larf buds and leaves and turned it back to a veg cycle. That also works well, but I prefer to just have clones ahead of time because it saves like eight weeks of watching both these scenario plants revegetate.
So what you do is hit them with some pollen (stored or time a male to flower) on day 1 you turn them back to long cycle veg period. Those oops late clone buds, and the larf on the monstercropper will gladly take pollen, grow seeds, and revegetate all at once. Those seeds will be viable and the reveg takes no longer w the seeds on board. I have experimented extensively with sister clones (seeded, not seeded) side by side and found they reveg at the same rate.
This scenario most often happens to me when I leave my sun grown clones outside too late in the fall. I just get distracted with harvesting or life with the family. Iâm embarrassed to admit how many times this has happened. It is definitely an opportunity to make some seeds while youâre waiting out the revege anyway. Thatâs all I was talking about.
Iâm actually doing this right now with some clones I left out late on purpose. So I can show you some example pictures later on this winter of sister veg clones all seeded and sans seeds side by side.
When I put a female clone out to purposely be seeded, i usually give her two or three weeks outside ahead of time. This allows her to fill out with lots of pistols all the way up and down her stem. The guy Ferreri stage. The stiff white ones early in flower. Then once the pollen hits I just leave the female out until she dies. This will maximize the seeds. Inversely, if your clone starts to flower oops scenario, you need to pull them back in for the revegetate. Youâre not gonna let them keep budding. So you only have a few pistols up and down the stems. So you only get a few seeds this way. You know maybe 6 to 20 seeds off a baby clone that it reveging. You would get a lot more off a big female monstercropping. On a female dedicated to seed production that I let die, I always get closer to 200 seeds. I hope that helps clarify things.
Wow, you copied the whole thing! 
I was just really happy to see you, sorry if I was annoying?
Iâm starting some seeds here for my outdoor grow. If it all ends in miserable moldy failure 8 months from now as is probably likely, thatâs going to end up being my primary selection criteria as well.
I definitely want something I can grow outdoor and survive in my climate. Itâs not as wet as yours but it definitely takes a sharp turn by Oct 1.
That dj short blueberry didnât finish till late October. She was not quick. The quickest I have ever done was an old TGA black cherry soda. It was done September1st. I donât think itâs around anymore but it is in so many cherry lines itâs crazy. I also have had good luck with classic sour diesel finishing up outside first week of September. I thought it was Barneyâs farm but I just checked their catalog and now days itâs without the diesel. You should be able to find some off that going around there.
Last year I did a new seed run of strawberry starburst from irie genetics in Colorado. Mold resistance was meh, but those buds were also done right about the second week of September. Just beautiful, better (louder) strawberry terps than the cough. The cough is nice, but is definitely slower to finish outside. I plan to cross those 2 next year. It was an amazing plant. This pic was sept 1. I had to cut it the first big rainstorm, but she was ripe. Sometimes mother nature says âthose look done to meâha.
You canât go wrong with the Durban. Itâs usually October 1st, but she can take a beating. As you know, I call it old reliable. Some years before I started seriously selecting for mold resistance Durban was sometimes all that made it to harvest.
I have also had good luck with train wreck before. It was in my keeper collection for a while. She came in quick. I quit growing it because around 2010 everyone grew it here and it got old. Just like how everyone overgrew blue dream before that. Try the humbolt seed version. I have not tried that, but someone I trust grows humbolt seeds lines. From what he says and what I read there they seriously select for mold resistance. The cut I had back then was nice and quick to finish.
San Fernando valley og was amazingly quick too. She was short and stocky and never stretched. I usually average 6-8 foot plants with lots of toppjng into bushes. That one never got taller than 30â. As soon as she flowered she never stretched an inch. But frosty nuggets and good mold resistance for a S cali strain in the rain. Excellent crippling couch lock smoke.
But you know my favorite. Jillybean. Best smoke ever. Whenever I feel bad she makes me feel better. She doesnât finish till first week of October could be your only hiccup. But the sky can pee on her and she will be good. Thatâs the one I would take if I was dropped on a dessert island.
Gorilla glue was quick outside too and could take the rain. Trichomes coverage is incredible on this. But the terps on the whole pack were lacking in my humble opinion. Especially a month after drying. I am tryin some gg crosses myself this year to try and find some better terps.
Afterthought sorry. Apparently I cannot edit 15 times like the last site.
Headband. That one did great outdoor and finished fast. I plan to start working this one again soon. I had to ditch my last headband line because she became real unstable with the hermaphroditism. Itâs quick too.
I was also considering Baked Apple, from the other site. Which is Cindy99 x Northern Lights. Supposedly flowers 6-8 weeks and finishes in Sept. Itâs one of their newest strains so I canât be sure how much of that claim is just âaggressive marketingâ.
I almost bought one named shineapple by dominion. It was sold out. I have never done apple terps but I can taste it on my tongue. I am more than curious to try some apple weed. I will be watching close if you do it.
Ha, I went with the guicy banger instead of the guicy g.
Trying these too.
You will like those vanilla frosting. I hear nothing but good things about the humbolt seeds. I am going to buy the train wreck x blueberry muffin next year. It is supposed to be one of their most mold resistant.
Too many strains. Not enough land. Is my only problem. 
I will be popping seeds next weekâŚ
With my keeper collection I donât think I am popping any of my seeds this year. Just sharing with the grow buddies. I am mailing a bunch of Durban x strawberry cough crosses to the old site. Mike, dollarbill, and a few others. Itâs good grow karma in my opinion.
I am real excited to try this one. Itâs dj short blueberry dusted with pollen from my jillybean. These are 2 of the best mold resistant strains I have ever come across. I have had the jillybean cut 12-13 years. I got the dj short blueberry last season.
The reason I wanted to mention it really, was the incredible mold resistance. I live in Seattle and as soon as Labor Day comes around mold resistance is all you care about. Anyway I have been very scientifically going through strains for about 15 or 16 years at this location. The DJ short blueberry literally blew anything Iâve ever tried out of the water. That motherfucker could sit in the rain for three or four weeks straight and Not get moldy. The smoke is delicious and lovely as well. It is a really good head high where you just need to relax and ponder life.
Check out this seedy lady
@CurrDogg420,
Remember those Durban x strawberry cough f1s I pollinated (bx actually or r1) back around Christmas. I said I would show you when the clone revegged pollinated with seeds on board. Here it is:
Happy growing allđ
Sorry for the photobombs.
This one is strawberry starburst (irie genetics) that was quick and lovely outdoor. I cycled pollen on her from a dj short Flo male. My grow buddy was running Flo and I happened to be there the day he sexed a male this past season. I about shit my pants. I said bro that boy is coming home me. Anyway:
I love it man, thatâs like some 10th level ninjitsu shit right there. 
I need to take some notes here. So now youâre going to run this plant, and evaluate its outdoor growth characteristics. With her Seeds from the next generation in hand. If you like what you see, process starts again, if not, bird food.
And just like that, youâve made an entire growth cycle disappear. Maybe you should change your handle to Kaiser Sozes kitty. 
But you sort of pulled it off by doing that growth cycle behind your back already. Indoors here.
Did I get that right? I understand if, as a magician, youâd prefer not to reveal your tricks.
Thatâs it in a nutshell. I take advantage of the mild outdoor temps around seattle. So I do a lot of steps outdoor so I donât have to run a second light (tent) scenario. Weather depending. I cannot prove it, but I think the more outdoor exposure I give my keeper lines, and my breeder lines, the more they heirloom to my local environment. There Seems a consistent drop in flower time and increase in mold resistance of keeper clone lines. Every line I kept I noticed about your four to year five an acute drop in flower time. On shit Iâve never crossed pollen with. I think itâs it phenotypical adaptations along same lines to the micro climate; or heir-looming. Just like tomatoes baby.
And of course the zen sun personal challenge I mentioned in the past. I take clones outside in the summer. Donât run the lights till October if I can help it (for the clones).
I have definitely made some shit seeds before. But lately I have been doing better. It was about the same time I got really ruthless about selection and upped my pheno hunt counts immensely. Be ruthless, we are not saving puppies and kittens here.
I share a lot of seeds with my local grow buddies. They help a lot with the pheno hunts.
And it feels like a karma thing to share.
Thank you for the kind words Currdogg. Someday we will meet in person.
Did you catch that? Strawberry starburst in a strawberry pot. Iâm still laughingâŚ
This was by chance also. The main reason was to stop fucking up my outdoor yields w seeds. (Or others; karma). Also to not be tempted to grow buds indoor too. My aquariums totally use up my amps @ the breaker box. To prevent âidle handsâ so to speak. I really like the results and it works my brain w the plant in a different way than just buds. I hate to say it but I would almost admit I like doing the seeding more than the budding. For my pure enjoyment perspective anyway. Trimming is always a PITAâŚ
@noddykitty1, Iâve got the keys for a really nice cottage on a really Great Lake. Itâs also about 25 mins away from Niagara Falls. Me and my family would pull out all the stops, my grow brother, for you and your family if you ever wanted to stop by. Be honored man. 
I was cleaning up all the lower messy transitioning larf this evening. On all the pollinated then reveged plants I harvested for this seasons seed run. I was just cleaning them up for spring planting. Itâs coming right up. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to find about 500 more seeds hiding in calyxes. Itâs been about 6 weeks since I harvested seeds. I think that some flat premature pistols were pollinated at harvest from lingering pollen. And since ripened on the plant. I threw this bonus seed all in 1 jar labeled â2022 orgyâ. Since I donât know who the daddy is on these anymore.
Also, I managed to reveg 3 of 8 males I flowered this year. I have not found males to reveg as you know. I have tried plenty. I was totally surprised and said hmmmâŚI did it by just pinching back a small shoot every day until it was just a bitty Bansai again. Slow and steady. I would still not depend on this. Taking a preflower clone of the male is soo much easier. To control and they clone easy in veg.
