Plant stuck at early flower and show persistent sign of nitrogen deficiency

[Emanesky]

Hey guys, so I have this plant that has been going great until the last couple weeks. Everything was going pretty well (I had to flush once, but that was due to my incorrect pH reading) until she finished her transition period maybe a month ago. I couldn’t be at my place as much as I needed to during that period, and at first I only thought that I had echoes from my previous nute burn.

Now I am pretty sure that my plant is having a serious nitrogen deficiency issue, the thing is, I still feed it some nitrogen, I even tried to amp the dose of my FloraMicro to give it a small boost, But I still had foliage lost this morning. Also, since the stretching period stopped and the first pistil appeared, my plant don’t seem to do anything. I also have a plant that was planted at the same time that is almost ready to harvest and hasn’t shown any sign of problems since I burned her to a crisp, 2 months ago. I’m pretty sure that my pH is now in the correct range, but honestly at this point I just have trust issues. I don’t trust my judgement, or the tools I am using. Which is why I now resort to internet.

My question : Have I diagnosed my plant correctly? If so, what can I do to fix it, given that adding more nitrogen didn’t seem to help? I know that people love to point at a calmag deficiency, but there’s a ton of supplement in my substrate that should provide those nutrient, and I’m not that down to drop a 40$ on a solution that will ultimately be useless.

Symptom :
Heavy foliage loss
Plant stunted for the last few weeks
Yellow leaves (All over)
Leaves dropping by themselves
Leaves burning
Red stem (I even have red “veins” on my main stem)

What strain, Seed bank, or bag seed : Ak 47, unknown source
Method: Soil w/salt, Organic soil, Hydroponics, Aquaponics, KNF : Substrate (Soil+peat+perlite+lime) & GH trio serie
Vessels: Pots, Grow beds, Buckets, Troths : 3gal pots
PH of Water, Solution, runoff (if Applicable) : Ph at around 6.5, run off is similar, but I use a drop kit so the color of the runoff could skew my reading. 
PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution if applicable : NA
Indoor or Outdoor : Indoor
What kind of Light system? : 1000w kingled (Actual 188w according to internet)
Temps; Day, Night : 26/24
Humidity; Day, Night 50/55%
Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size : Kinda, I grow in a closet so I let the door crack open and use have some fans for air intake and out take
AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier, : Nope
Co2; Yes, No : No idea what this means, so I  guess no. 

This one is just to show where the plant have been stuck in the last couple weeks.

[Covertgrower]

Welcome to the forum! We’ll get her figured out.

Some of the yellowing may be caused by lack of nitrogen, and some could be fan leaf die off from lack of light. What’s the PH, of the run off and the ph going in?
Let’s tag some others in case I’m not around.
@Oldguy @Bulldognuts

[Oldguy]

@Emanesky

but I use a drop kit

This could be part of the cause.
They are not nearly accurate enough for our intents and purposes.
A decent digital ph meter is essential when growing indoors.
The Apera ph-20 is a good choice for about 40$.
Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient and is depleted first when the ph is off at the roots.
A good feed properly ph’d with ample runoff should start things back on track.

[Emanesky]

Thank you!

The pH going in is around 6.5. I try to use as less salt solution as possible because I had bad runs with lock downs on my first grow. My run off is similar in the reading, but the drop kit I use indicate a pH of 6.5 with the same color as the run off (golden/yellow) so I’m not too sure if I should trust it.

I must say, this plant is WAY bigger than I first expected. My first grow was in 5 gallons buckets and it was way too tight in my closet to my liking, so I used 3 gallons smartpot this time. Well, the problematic plant is just as big as my first batch. Anyway, all of this rambling to say that a lack of light is totally possible too, I was even thinking about a defoliation. I still find the rate of leaves dying pretty high and worrying.

@Oldguy I kinda thought about that too (See the point higher about reading my run off pH), but the information on the net is contradictory. Some say that soil is forgiving enough for drop kit and blah blah, and since there is no such thing as cheap product in Canada, I was kind of reticent. I’ll look for Canadian supplier to see if I can find a cheaper but reliable alternative (the one you mentions is 100$ on a amazon.ca) Thank you!

[Covertgrower]

@Emanesky

The pH going in is around 6.5.

Knowing the drop kit is inaccurate, I think it would be safe to assume these numbers may be incorrect.
Thanks for looking out Oldguy, missed that one.

[Oldguy]

Any time brother. Just a tag away.

[Bulldognuts]

I have to agree with @Oldguy definitely need to get accurate ph readings in and out. Once you’re sure the ph is right you can get things back on track.

[kellydans]

@Emanesky check eBay. Apera PH 20 40 bucks

[ThirtyThree]

With what your describing it sounds like you over-fertilized and injured your plant which caused it to uptake less water and eventually led to what looks like some minor root pathogen that’s effecting older roots. I can see a characteristic circular dead spot that really I only see with fungal issues. As long as you don’t overwater, and allow your medium to dry out, you should be fine. If you water heavily with low lighting it def promotes fungal growth. Deficiency-like symptoms can occur from a lack of nutrients, or an inability to take them in. Your ph is fine, otherwise the rest of your plant would be more wonky imo. Just looks like your still working through remnant root damage from your overfirt to me.

[CMichGrower]

My opinion, but what I would do is repot it.

If your plant has stalled out and nutrients are out of wack, then you have nothing to loose by repotting it in a bigger pot. Fresh soil will give the plant everything it needs to recover (other then water and light) and will take all the guesswork out of how to fix it.

[Emanesky]

Thanks everyone, I’ll repot and find myself a digital pH meter today. I’ll revisit this post if my problems persist. You all are awesome!

[Franksandbeans]

Looks like a deficiency to me also. I have found it is almost impossible to fix a nitrogen problem when flowering.

[TommyG]

I am in Canada. Looking for a pH meter. I was wondering, did you find one?

[Emanesky]

Yes! I bought the Hanna GroLine HI 98115 for 60$, but it was at a local shop. I think indoorgrowingcanada also sell them.

[Emanesky]

Hi everyone,

I decided to reuse this topic since it’s kind of a follow up question. So I followed some advice found here and I think I got my nitrogen deficiency under control. I am still losing some leaves every day, but it’s way less and the cause could be associated to my next question.

So this plant stretched way too much. I’ll even need to make some minor work in my closet, because right now my plant is inches from the top of my plant, and this is as high as my anchor goes. Anyway, the real problems that I can see is that MOST of the plant does not recieve any direct light.

Anything below the line is basically shaded.

Now I know that spreading thes cola apart could help light penetate more, but my plant is as large as my pot, and I just can’t figure out how to tie it in a way that would move the colas apart from each others. Another solution that I know about is defoliating, but I would love for more experienced grower to give me their advice before doing anything drastic.

Other relevant info : This plant was started April 19th, she’s been stuck in early flower for a month now. I’ve seen a bit more growth since I got my nitrogen deficiency under control(I think), but barely any.

Relevant info :
Last water ph:6.7, runoff at 6.5
Light : 1000w kingled, real 188w
Pot : 3 galon smart pot
Height (is it relevant? Idk ) : 70cm, 27inch from first to last leaf OR 1.1m, 43 inches from top to floor.

[ThirtyThree]

I have seen a lot of plants get stunted during transition due to watering related issues. When your plant starts transition it reduces its development of roots and begins to focus everything on its stretching period. While these roots are growing more slowly, they drink less, and excess water will slow your plant down drastically. It looks like your top leaves are angled towards the light, but they begin to angle downwards as they get to the leaf tips. This is usually a minor overwatering sign. If your room is not that hot, your plant will be forced to talk to you way slower as heat causes the plant to work harder and display its issues rapidly. It’s processes slow if the root zone takes longer to dry out as well.

So what I’m thinking happened is that your plant began transition and reduced its water intake, which created a preliminary moisture problem. The plant was unable to access the nitrogen as it did its stretch and showed you signs. You then supplemented the nitrogen and now have seen very minimal growth after your plant stopped stretching. Nitrogen is the primary vegetative nutrient and, it can actually help a plant revert back to its vegetative state if dosed heavily. I’ll assume your lights are set correctly, which narrows it down to your plant is potentially confused and may re-veg due to high nitrogen amounts applied during transition and low amounts of direct light. Or your plant is in slow motion because it’s soil medium has too much moisture, and isn’t drying out fast enough. If you know your not dealing with overwatering, then it’s probably the first scenario.

[Emanesky]

Overwatering is pretty much out of the question, if anything I have a problem with underwatering, I caught early sign of drooping due to dry soil way more than I care to admit to be honest. The thing about the nitrogen supplementation is that I experienced a nute lock down due to improper pH a couple months ago. A flush pretty much got this one back to track, but I got very stingy with nutrient after the fact. Using half a dose, and only on one out of three watering. What I’m trying to say is that the growth stunted way before I cranked to nitrogen intake, which was only 9 days ago.

So, should I switch my timer to 12/12 in hope that it triggers it back to flowering?

[ThirtyThree]

Wait I’m confused, are you saying your plant is in early flowering without you having reduced the lights to 12/12 already?

[Emanesky]

Well, yeah. Am I not on the autoflower section? I’ve pretty much read everywhere that you do not need to switch your timer for autoflowers. That it was even good to give them as most light as possible. I just harversted one that was planted at the same time, but was way smaller (went too early into flower) and didn’t stunt. I never switched of her neither.

[ThirtyThree]

Oh my bad, I spaced on the autoflower catagory. Ok so, since that’s the case, I would keep the lights how you have them and very soon it should start to show flower signs