I have had conflicting opinions on what is currently happening with my plant. Have heard lockout causing deficiencies, and light stress.
Problem is the plant is turning very light green on the top of the plant but lower and inner grow is lust dark green.
Plants in 8th week of veg
Growing in soil
FF nutrients and ocean forest soil
Flushed with sledgehammer a week and a half ago
Current Runoff ph 6.2 soil slurry ph 6.4 runoff ppM 850-1200 currently depending on plant
Lights at about Par 650 ppfd over plant. Again, the newest sprouting growth is curling and top leaves lime green versus inner and bottom dark green
Impo this dosnt look like a light or nutrient issue but more like a watering issue im guessing you are using 5 gallon buckets with drainage holes in the bottom with that said how much are you watering and how often also 6.2 and 6.4 is a little low for soil id personally like to see run off at about the same as to whats going in around 6.5-6.7 and with plants this size id shoot for 1000-1200ppm feeds nothing under 1000ppm these arent exactly small plants haha
New growth comes in a lime green, but it darkens up shortly. Definitely over watered. The pH is fine for the stage. Can’t help with ppm, as I grow with amendments, but the Fox Farms chart shows a range, per week.
You need to move the lights up or dim them if your tops are curling. They’re trying to get away from the light.
The picture of the plant with the drooping leaves is first thing in the AM when the lights came on, so typically this is the condition of the plant. I have attached another picture of what the plant looks like in the afternoon.
Currently watering about 1.25 gallons every 4 days. Pot weight goes from. 20lbs an after water to 10 lbs about the time I water in 4 days…… pot is quite dry and when pressing the sides of the Fabric pot, the rootball is filling the pot and stiff.
Water runoff has been my biggest problem with ph lowering to close to 6, and plants not taking up nutrients, so after each watering or feed, the PPMs go up about 200-300 more than the previous check.
I did do a sledgehammer flush about 1.5 weeks ago, but PPMs only came down to 700, and now after a feed. A watering, and a light feed, last runoff was around 1200.
When feeding, I have been using 1/2 the recommended Fox Farms Trio recommendation and think my PPMs of feed are about 750-800.
Perhaps I have been too conservative with the nutes, but after the flush, I had a two inch high white ring around the bottom of the fabric pots which I assume are all the salt buildup
Anymore recommendations, let me know, and thanks again for your help
Take this with a grain of salt. First, they look as if they are in preflower to me. Second, I farted around a lot when I had plants that started doing this, but mine was strictly a pH problem.
Since she’s getting so big, I’d be shooting for PPM 1000. The new growth looks pretty healthy to me.
After looking at the updated picture @M397 and reviewing your new post, I’d say that your watering is on point.
I don’t deal with ppm’s in my grows, but you are feeding light. That’s not a bad thing at all. Reading your plants will get you further than reading a chart. They are looking heathy.
You do have some Mg def starting, yellowing between veins. Adjust your watering to include 1 tsp/gal Epson salt. That should stop the progression.
The deficiency shows a couple weeks after it begins. You may wanna hit them, that first time, with 1 tbs/gal to replenish the soil. Then maintain levels with the 1 tsp.
Tag me with further questions. I very rarely on ILGM these days, but tags send me emails. That way I can assist you a bit faster.
This pot was after a fourth run. I use lots of different Saponins in my grows; so for sure, that’s not salt buildup.
If you’re worried about salt buildup, I’d get some ThermX70, yucca saponin. Add 1-2 ml/gal every water/feed. This will remove salt buildup every time you water to runoff. It’ll make your final flushing a breeze at 3-4 ml/gal, and take less water to achieve.
FF Sledgehammer is very diluted yucca in a bottle, if I remember correctly. I can add my own damn water. If you’d care to read more on Yucca Extract - Therm X-70 – BuildASoil
What you are seeing is Magnesium def. Above I told you how to fix. The spots starting to appear is Calcium def.
Do you add calmag into your feedings?
Is you pH meter calibrated regularly? Do you adjust your water/feeds before use? If so, adjust the pH up higher to compensate for the lower soil pH.
Let’s say that the last runoff water was 5.2. I water with 6.5. New runoff is let’s say 5.9 then I’d go in at 7.2 for a higher runoff number. It’s a constant game of adjusting your input up and down to maintain your levels.
Greatly appreciate your reply…… I totally agree that it is a magnesium and Cal deficiency.
In regards to Ph pen, yes l, I calibrate weekly and purchased a higher end solution which confirmed my pen appears correct.
If I’m correct, magnesium has issues with uptake when ph is in the low 6’s and high 5’s.
I have tried multiple time to offset the water PH 7+ to increase the runoff ph but cannot get above 6.25 no matter what I do and it seems to want to continue lower.
I have added cal mag at each watering and also added Epsom salt and an Epsom salt folkier spray once a week
I did a flush to try to correct a couple weeks ago but only flushed to 700 ppM…. Was told on this forum that I should have flushed to 300-400 and because I didn’t, I most likely did not correct my ph lock.
Just not sure at this point if I will damage them more if I flush again at next watering to try to drop PPMs to 300-400 and reset PH at 6.5-6.6?
No damage will occur, however I recommend to allow the soil to dry out a couple of days before watering again.
The same day after your last flush with plain water, mix up the correct ratios of nutrients with the proper PH. This will add nutrients in the medium after the flushing, this assists in preventing more issues.
Sometimes multiple flushings are the only way to turn it back around.
Don’t forget to water to 20% run off each time! This removes salt build up, and allows excess nutrients to get flushed out so it doesn’t cause issues at later time.
Hope this helps!
A question regarding my current watering practice as I am wondering if that has an impact on salts drying out making the runoff of the salts difficult to clear during the next watering or feeding.
, I have been watering about every 4 days and when I do water, the pot is very light. I typically weigh to compare weight before and after water, and typically 9-10 lbs before, and 19 lbs after water.
When you say mix the nutrient to add after flush, do you do this the day you flush and add nutrient feeding at the end, or wait till the next watering and feed at that point.
Every environment is different, it’s difficult to discern when a good time is to water for everyone. If the container is light, then I would recommend watering a day or two sooner. Every 2 days should be enough.
Don’t forget to water until run off!
Do this the same day you do the flush. After the flush there is significantly LESS nutrients in the medium, and could cause a nitrogen deficiency or many other things.
On the last bit of clean water, yes feed it last after the flush. Hope that makes sense. I need more coffee.
I greatly appreciate the advice! I have new found respect for all growers, I invested in great equipment, genetics, etc and expected it would be a breeze, and I was quickly humbled and downright depressed by the results so far…… Hoping I can turn this around.
One last question for you, because I have been putting these plant off from flipping into flower, would it be beneficial for me to upside the pots? (Currently 5 G) Reason why I am asking is when feeling the pot, it feels very stiff and root bound… not trying to add another variable, but didn’t know if it would benefit going to 7 gal pots after the flush is finalized
I would use 1 tbsp per gal. Per Pot of dolomite lime and scratch it in with fork then run ro water with some calmag 5 gal pots are good enough, you should be getting plenty of runoff with 1.25 gal good luck
5G is more than enough room for the roots. I typically grow in a 3 gallon.
Only times I recommend a larger container is if you’re creating a SCROG, or growing outside. It’s still better to put in the ground than a container. Any time you have longer veg times than usual.
So I have a few questions after completing my flush over the weekend.
My plants are Purple Star Killer indica plants (5) and one F Incredible in 5 gal fabric pots and they were flushed due to a PH/PpM lockout.
Prior to the flush, the PH runoff was 5.9 and the PPMs were 1500. The plant was exhibiting considerable evidence of magnesium deficiency, see picture below.
After flush with 2 gallon each of water treated with sledgehammer, let soak for 45 min and followed with 5 gallons of ph’d water, the PPMs came down to 350-400 and PH was 6.4-6,5 on the runoff. I fed them a light feeding ph’ at 6.7 and runoff ph remained the same.
Yesterday I fed them a feeding of 1100 PPMs, ph’d at 6.7, and once again with 20% run PPMs stayed at 1100 at runoff, but the ph on the plants had dropped once again to 6.0 on three of the six plants… not sure why the plant soil continues to drop even when feeding at a higher ph.
Any insight would be appreciated… I must note that the 1 F Incredible plant continues to maintain a higher PH of 6.35, so perhaps the genetics of the Purple star killer cause the lower PH??
Looks like you did well with the recovery. Unfortunately you won’t be able to know if you’ve corrected the issue until you see new growth.
All growth that was currently affected, won’t change back to green. They can be removed if you choose, they won’t recover.
Some plants have PH preferences or ranges, all you can do is accommodate, or it is what it is. 6.0 is a good range.
Organic growing isn’t typically encouraged to flush, as this flushes all the nutrients out. It definitely takes some adjustments in the approach to growing in it.
