New grower organic coir autoflowers, week 5, preflower, possible issue?

Hi all,

It’s great to find a grow forum that is filled with such helpful people! Some others I’ve tried resort to trolling and arguing over the “best” grow method instead of trying to actually be helpful. As much as I’d like to do some of the extensive monitoring and feeding that some do, I have limited time and energy due to medical issues so I’m trying to find a grow style that fits in my life and what I’m able to do physically and financially.

I’m growing autoflowers in coco coir and perlite using Gaia Green dry amendments with added worm castings (Mr. Canuck method). I’m in week 5 from sprouting and they are showing preflowers. To my untrained eye, it appears that new growth is a little lighter green than it should be, and also possibly some lower leaves now as well (lower leaves looked darker to my eye last week or so). I have read that plants entering pre flower may have lighter growth for a bit, but I am unsure if that’s what’s going on here.

I’ve looked at the nutrient deficiency pics and info on the main site and none of them seem to fix exactly, except possibly iron? I am watering with cal mag as I only found out about charging coir after I had already planted seeds. I’d appreciate input from everyone on whether this is an issue or not, and if so what you think is going on.

I did recently top dress with 2-8-4 this last week as that was the schedule for it and they were also starting to show flowers. I should also mention that I intentionally have the light at a bit higher intensity (35 DLI) and a bit closer than usual because I read that this would encourage more stocky growth and less stretching. Maybe that wasn’t a good plan?

Here is my support ticket info:

-What strain, Seed bank, or bag seed (photo or auto)
Seedsman seeds. Northern Lights and Critical + 2.0. Both are autos

-Age of plant
5 weeks as of this past week, preflowers showing.

-Method: Soil w/salt, Organic soil, Hydroponics, Aquaponics, KNF
Coco coir and perlite with Gaia Green organic amendments and worm castings at around 25%, along with mycorrhizae. Gaia green was added when making grow mix at 2 tablespoons 4-4-4 and 2-8-4 per gallon of media, worm castings around 25% of mix, perlite about 5% (I’d add some more next grow). Once they hit 5 weeks, I top dressed with 4 tablespoons worm castings and 1 tablespoon 2-8-4 per gallon of media. I also added a bit more mycorrhizae. This should take about 2 weeks to break down and be available to the plants from what I understand.

-Vessels: Type and capacity of container (fabric, plastic, etc)
5 gallon fabric pots, seeds started in final pots

-PH and TDS of Water, Solution, runoff (if Applicable)
Water with dechlorinated tap water (no chloramine is present) with ph adjusted to between 6 - 6.5, usually every 3-4 days. I use the lift the pot method to see when they need water. Cal mag is also added at 5ml per gallon since I missed needing to charge my coir until it was too late. Our tap water also has decent amounts of calcium in it. I don’t usually get runoff, if I do it is very little and plants reabsorb it within a few minutes. I’ve watered with molasses water (1 tablespoon a gallon) twice to try to get mycorrhizae some help getting established. Plants are getting between 1/2 to 3/4 gallon every watering until pots feel fairly heavy.

-PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution if applicable
N/A

-Method used to measure PH and TDS
Ph measured with drops, no TDS measured

-Indoor or Outdoor if indoor, size of grow space
Indoor 3ftx3ftx6ft tent

-Light system List brand and wattage/spectrum
Viparspectra KS3000 320W This is a mix of 3000k and 5000k with some 650nm leds.

-Actual wattage draw of lights
Only at 75% at the moment, around 250watts I think (max wattage of light at 100% is 320watts) Around 18” from canopy.

-Current Light Schedule
18/6

-Temps; Day, Night
Day: around 70-75F. Closer to 75F as summer gets closer
Night around 65F

-Humidity; Day, Night
Really depends day to day. I aim for around 50% when lights are on. It rises up to 10% more with lights off and I raise exhaust fan speed to try to counteract potential mold/other nastiness issues. There is also a circulating fan running 24/7. VPD is usually in acceptable range, I’m not able to control it well at night to matter what I do so I try not to chase optimal levels then. Currently 1.0 - 1.15 during the day but it really fluctuates.

-Ventilation system; Yes, No, Size
AC Infinity 6” fan and circulating fan

-AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier,
Humidifier, controlled with AC Infinity 69 Pro controller, currently set to maintain 50% during day, and 45% at night.

-Co2; Yes, No
No CO2

Watering frequency is every 3-4 days or so. Tends to be sooner (2 days) if humidity outside is really low, we’ve had humidity in low teens several times the last few weeks and a few single digit days too.

I’ve attached photos below. I’m interested in what everyone here thinks and I appreciate any thoughts and/or advice. :slight_smile:




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First picture looks like photo was taken just before lights out (or on), or there is a root issue.

Light green (lime green) is normal for a growing plant. Leaves will darken over time.

Other than that it looks okay. FYI worm castings are a rich source of available N so as long as PH range of media/liquid is correct, it should be available to the plant.

I would strongly suggest acquiring a decent PH and TDS meter. They are the two most used tools of the indoor grower.

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I would recommend watering more frequently with coco. It could easily dry out in the 3 -5 days you mentioned. If you’re staying with organic try and keep the coco damp :love_you_gesture:

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I second @OGIncognito. Watering at least once a day is mandatory in coco. If you don’t keep the coco wet you lose all the benefits of growing in coco instead of soil.

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Thank you for the thoughts. So I shouldn’t be too concerned with overwatering in coir? I was thinking the worm castings would hold onto water more than straight coir. Also, the pots still usually feel heavy a day or two after I water so I didn’t want to overdo it. Maybe the weight as indicator for medium moisture is more applicable to soil grows? In addition, the coir seems to be “deflating” as time goes by, which is why I want to add more perlite next grow. This grow I am also unintentionally using poor quality brick coir, but have purchased some canna coco to use for next time. I’ll be happy with any harvest for this grow, and I’m glad there still alive so far!

As far as ph meters, there’s so many conflicting opinions on them. It seems no matter the brand, someone out there has had a bad experience with them. I’ve heard good things about Bluelabs and Apera (PC60) meters. Also, would I need a separate meter for coir and one for water? The PC60 is especially attractive because it is cheaper than Bluelabs, does more than just PH, and maybe most importantly a probe replacement is lower cost than many others I’ve seen.

I’m still looking through numerous posts on the forum, but they are often packed with info (hundreds of replies) so they take awhile for me to get through. I do enjoy the learning aspect of growing. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the help!

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The pH and ppm meters are for the water - you test what goes in and what comes out (runoff).

BlueLabs is great - I have had mine since mid-2021 and had no issues with breaking, accuracy drift, etc. Apera is also fabulous. Many have the pH20, since it’s cheaper and still accurate. As far as the tds/PPMs, a cheapie usually works fine but a good name brand removes the worrying “is this even accurate?”

The PC60, as you identified, is a good tool since it does both. Only one device to keep track of can be good, or bad (bad if you’re me).

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

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Thank you! I’ll look at both meters again.

I forgot to mention earlier that pic 1 & 2 from my first post are both 3.5 hours after lights on.

And thanks for the welcome!

@Frogbutt You are in good hands here… Also go check a site called " Coco for Cannabis " they cover everything you will need to know growing in Coco and get you to maximize and simplify your grow.

Welcome to the community. These coco guys are top notch and will help you along the way. If you are limited due to a medical issue, have you ever thought of using living soil as a medium? Its a little bit less maintenance than coco…

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Thanks @Hogbud. Everyone is really friendly and helpful here. I’ll definitely check out the site you mentioned. Thanks.

@ChittyChittyBangin Yes, but I have some money already invested in coco supplies so I’d like to use the bricks I have. I’m stubborn! But I think I can manage better next time.

@Myfriendis410 PH meter is on the way! (First one was destroyed during shipping).

Plants are looking less sad. I’ll post updated pics soon.

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Also thanks @Graysin I decided on the PC60

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Coco becomes hydrophobic if it dries out.

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@MidwestGuy Thanks, it’s never been too dry (as far as I can tell). It’s more that the coir level has fallen. I think this may be solved by using a higher level of medium next grow as well as better quality coir.

I’m learning a lot during this grow already!

I really appreciate everyone’s help here on the forum.

It may appear to be deflating due to water loss. I water twice a day in coco during the up-pot transplanting routine.
After they are in their final home I use the autopot system. Might be something you would be interested in. Pretty low maintenance, I fill the reservoir once or twice a week.

@Adt187 That’s interesting. The auto pots seem very nice. Do they have to be used with liquid nutrients or could I use dry amendments and the auto pots for nute-free watering?

I don’t know how well a bottom feed system would work with dry amendments.
They work best with coco/perlite and coco works best with liquid fertigation. Think of coco as hydro

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@Frogbutt like chitty suggested, living soil is your answer. If you have watched any of his more recent runs he has switched to living soil and there is a reason for that.

Organics and hydro don’t mix well, it’s can be done but not optimal. A peat based medium would be best for this type of growing. It’s naturally acidic which means you can load it with calcium (different sources) gypsum, oyster flour, crustacean meal or whatever you come up with to balance that.

I don’t recommend you feed that heavy to start with, he is an experienced grower and has been doing this for years. That’s like following a body builder in a gym trying to do everything he does.
Maybe start with 1 table spoon per gallon.

I use Gaia green along with other products, if you have any questions feel free at ask, I’ll help the best I can.

I can tell you those plants are stressed from to much nutrient, I’d be lying if I told you i haven’t does that before.

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Thanks @Adt187 I was able to read several articles on the coco for cannabis site and they answered a lot. I have fully watered them the past two days and they look a bit perkier. I’ll have to see how they respond to last weeks top dress in another week or so. It’s 6 weeks for the GC today and for the Northern Lights this Friday.

@Adt187 Thanks!

@Autos-only Thank you. Do you have a grow I could look at? I tried looking at your posts but couldn’t find one. I may be looking in the wrong place. Or you preferred recipe using peat and Gaia Green?

It would be great to be able to use the Gaia Green I already have. I do have peat and perlite tucked away.

I’m considering for the next grow to do one plant in coir and one in soil. I’d like to make some more attempts with coir, but maybe shouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket.

I’m happy my plants are still alive at this point and not doing terribly. I’d be happier to get to harvest (no matter how small) and feel like I really accomplished something and would be thrilled if drying and curing goes well. My ideal would be to improve a bit each grow and keep expanding my knowledge.

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I don’t have any full documented articles no, but I can share some photos of some grows I have done.

@Frogbutt the fact you want to learn and do research and have the drive tells me you will be successful.
Your plants do not look bad and I see no reason why you can’t get some quality flower off of them.
I use peat with EWCs, Gaia green products and build A soils products, TM7. Iv found these few products give me a great balance when I send soil off for analysis.
Here are a couple pictures of Plutos cut by ethos genetics.



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