Hey everyone - joined up to see if I could find a solution to an interesting issue I am having. I am not exactly a beginner, but definitely no expert. Apologies for the lack of brevity ahead! I started an indoor>outdoor grow in an unconventional way due to the sun and rain exposure this time of the year up here (lots of rain, mostly cloudy, windy at times). I want to veg these indoors until June and move them out for flowering. my setup: -10 plants from seed here in the PNW started back in late March -germ’d in paper towel, moved to 4 inch pots, transplanted to 7in pots @ wk 4 or so -soil mix: FFOF + additional worm castings (ratio roughly 10:1 since I figured the castings were probably superfluous to the mix, but cant hurt. -no nutes until week 5, light feeding with FF growbig -2 tsp/gal water, fed every other watering -allowing soil to get relatively dry between waterings - so watering is about once a week right now -roots looking good, showing seekers around bottom at drain holes -transplant went well, no shock, growth has sped up overall. will be potting up from here -pH checked yesterday with digital meter, 6.0 Lighting: I was initially moving the plants in an outside with 2 (cheapo amazon) blue LED array grow panels on 18/6 schedule, allowing them to be outside when it wasnt raining. This part is important, i think. My gut tells me this might have been my error. I am new to LED, so initially I had the lights set wayyyy too close to the plants and when I started to see some of this stuff happening around the 3rd week, I researched and raised them to about 18". There were days where they were placed outside and the weather cleared up, giving them a full-sun bath which I know can be damaging. I have kept them inside under the LEDs for the past 2 weeks. The problem: Half of the plants show some sort of defect in growth that includes: -wrinkled leaves, some deformation in shape and serration -slight inter-vein discoloration (paleness) -leaf pinching and folding downward (upside down taco) -generally smaller leaf sizes -new growth appears crinkled, edges turning up slightly -puffy area around central vein in fan leaves -leaves appear “wet” or “shiny” in spots of swelling/wrinkling The other 5 are robust, have large healthy leaves and are generally looking great - however there are small areas where these issues have showed up. New growth on these all appear normal and robust. The color, overall on all plants appears healthy, despite the deformations and obvious health issues. What I have checked for: -pH - appears to be right in the correct range. Watering from the tap (with open time, allowing for chlorine off-gassing) -over/underwatering - drainage is good and soil is never waterlogged or overly dry -nutrients - every plant is being fed the same, so having lockup or excess in half doesnt make sense (to me) pests - using a loupe I have not detected any foliar pets and the roots appear white and healthy at the drain holes ( just a few seekers peeking out) -heat/humidity - basement area is a constant 60deg / 60% rel hum. lights are 18"+ above plants -constant fan breeze What I suspect I think I have burned them with the LEDs and the sporadic full exposure to the sun. The pale streaks that occur between veins is not as dramatic as I have seen in other photos, but seem logical to the argument. It doesnt explain how the other half are as healthy as they are though. There are bits of damage here and there on the healthy plants but only a very small fraction of the unhealthy plants. If it is the problem, then I should see clear, healthy growth begin to take over as I have them inside with lights adjusted to a proper height, no? The only other thing I can think and haven’t fully accounted for is nutrients (I will try a test today) or some type of virus or root disease. Or is it super simple? Am i overwatering without knowing it? Care to take a swing at whats going on here? Anything I left out that will help with clues? (i cant imagine) Thanks so much for reading! healthy one for comparison at the end: [image] [image] [image] [image] [image]

A strong base or acid will cause a pH meter to throw its calibration fast. All pH meters should be calibrated initially because of the way the probe is produced and stored for long term dry conditions prior to sale.

thanks. just as ignorant to the mechanisms as to the theory.

A good read on PH measurement: [image] How do pH meters work? | Measuring acidity An easy-to-understand introduction to how pH meters measure acidity.

It might be worthwhile to get schooled on PH and TDS meters. Both measure the conductivity of a liquid then convert it into some rational number we can relate to the real world with. In actuality the meters don’t read non conductive stuff (try white sugar) but can be used in general for what we are doing. The only accurate means for measuring the TDS of a solution is to remove the water and weight the solids against the original sample weight. PH stands for “potential hydrogen” and is a standard measure for determining the acidity or alkalinity of a solution. Every change of .1 is 10 times the acidity/alkalinity of the solution. The PH meter has a glass bulb that is ‘hydroscopic’ (likes water) and needs to remain hydrated or it will crack and fail. The unit is best left stored in storage and reference solution. If you want something for a cross-check pick up some 7.0 Standard Reference Solution which doubles as a storage solution. https://www.amazon.com/Biopharm-Calibration-Electrode-Traceable-Reference/dp/B01LWTOG4R/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=7.0+standard+reference+solution&qid=1556640070&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

thanks, super informative links the both of them. i also want to restate that half of my crop is really healthy. just as an example: [image]

@perry2 Had a similar issue you can refer to [image] No stretch what can I do Flowering Ok I have had plant in 12/12 for 6 days now and there is no stretch yet. I have heard that it can take a week to start then I heard the first 2 weeks is when it does stretch any help please. [image]

I saw when he posted another thread regarding the wrinkled leaves and directed him to this post a few days back actually. thanks though - it is similar looking for sure I took my ph and ppm meter into my local grow shop and had them checked/calibrated. both meters were on point and the readings I am getting are good. just to reiterate: tap is around 7.1-7.2, runoff was coming in at 7.3. I want to check soil from the healthier plants tomorrow to see if there is any variation since I have used 3 bags of soil by now. I discussed the issue with the guys there and I got a strange response from one of them regarding the runoff - he seemed to disagree that it was problematic to be coming out at 7.3. He gave me some reasoning about organic soil and microbial processes that might make the pH less important or exact. I agree that I might be overthinking the whole thing, but the basic info about pH and nutrient uptake is sort of the basis for plant health. So the fact that I am getting readings out of the optimal range should be considered a problem and potential root cause of some of or all of these issues. Also, after having shown the images to the owner, he was also baffled. He mentioned the possibility of a viral infection. I definitely see some strong similarities in the symptoms but I am hesitating since the pH is still an issue (and it seems that the idea of TMV could be jumping too far to conclusions). here are some shots I took today that look similar to others ive seen in the various TMV threads. [image] [image] [image] [image] SO - here’s where I need some (more) guidance: if @garrigan62 is right and FFOF is the root of all my evils, what are my solutions? I would really rather not dump all that soil and buy new stuff. Is there a way I can amend it to bring that pH into the correct zone since pH’d water is not going to do the job? I understand that I could add some nutrients to bring the pH of my water down, thereby adjusting the soils pH with the buffering phosphates - but because FFOF is so hot to begin with, wouldnt I run the risk of burning? What are some other options? Soil sulphur? Peat? As you can probably tell, im way out of my depth here and grasping at straws. I appreciate all your help immensely!

just found @garrigan62 post from '15! [image] MY GUIDE for PH UP PH DOWN Troubleshooting ShareThis The soil pH value is a measure of soil acidity or alkalinity. Soil pH directly affects nutrient availability. The pH scale ranges from 0 to 14, with 7 as neutral. Numbers less than 7 indicate acidity while numbers greater than 7 indicate alkalinity. The pH value of soil is one of a number of environmental conditions that affects the quality of plant growth. The soil pH value directly affects nutrient availability. Plants thrive best in different soil pH ranges. Azaleas, rhododendrons… looks like Aluminum Sulfate is another option.

Also you can do this with the rest of your soil you have ok ? Will Organic substances frequently used to reduce soil pH are peat moss, rotted manure and rotted leaf compost. Canadian sphagnum peat moss, with a pH of between 3.0 and 4.5, can be worked effectively into the top 8 to 12 inches of soil or your bags of FFOF

Yoir in good hands with @garrigan62. He’s the soil expert.

Wrinkled, folding leaves in half of my soil crop

Indoor Growing Climate

WickedAle April 30, 2019, 5:57pm 39

@perry2 Had a similar issue you can refer to

Topic		Replies	Views
Some leaves look slightly wrinkly and serrated edges turned up Troubleshooting	3190	21272	September 11, 2024
My first grow crisis help Grow Journals	101	12291	September 6, 2017
New to growing cannabis and seedlings soil is not exactly in the optimal range Grow Support outdoor-grow	633	5759	October 5, 2023
Leaf Issues need second opinion Diseases	41	2114	March 6, 2018
Weird problem persists; leaves browning from center outwards Troubleshooting	42	1383	August 22, 2020
Newbie here please help Grow Support	116	1597	November 4, 2021
Leaves Are Dying Diseases	108	1674	August 7, 2021
Ridged Leaves, Brown Areas and Purple Stems...Help! Diseases	38	2031	November 4, 2023

Wrinkled, folding leaves in half of my soil crop

Related topics