Tapping in for help, auto grow not looking too good

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again growmies,
finally reaching out for help on this grow, really doesn’t look like it’s going well These are 3 autos from FastBuds (Blue Dream, Blackberry, and Gorilla Cookies). It’s been 15 days since the seeds hit water, and it’s been a disaster from the get-go. They got stretchy and are toppling over (I did some supports for them to hold them up, the green wire on the first 2 plants), they have been very yellowish/light green for almost all their lives, leaves are twisting and crinkling (especially node 1 on each plant looks horrible), and even getting brownish tips. I really don’t know what I’m doing wrong.
Some stats:
Media: Coco/Perlite 70/30
DLI: 12
Lights: 36 inches at 45% intensity (Electric Sky ES300 V3)
EC fed today: 1150 (Week 1 of Advanced Nutrients schedule diluted a bit with RO water). Started feeding from 400 EC rising up gradually by 75-100 points a day.
They have been under humidity domes for 10 days since sprout, domes were taken off 4 days ago. They have a fan blowing on them and my exhaust fan is on at the lowest setting (AC Infinity 6 Inch).
Temps: Lights ON 23C/73F, OFF 19C/66F
Humidity: 52% - 58%

@MeEasy This one is for you if you can shed some light please (pun intended lol) since you have an Electric Sky also, and also use the below chart:
I’m trying to use the DLI chart you use in your journal, but when does Week 1 actually start for you? Can you give me some tips what height and intensity you use on your Electric Sky for seedlings? (and then from thereon when you start using the chart?)
This is the chart I’m referring to:

Thanks in advance again everyone. I really appreciate all your time. Feel really bummed out, this grow is going worse than my first one And with these being autos, I hope it’s not too late for them.

[sparker]

They look fine to me, maybe a little too much water, the soil looks “wet”. Other than that looking good.

[MagicCultivator420]

Really @sparker ? That would be a relief if so. The ‘soil’ looks that wet cause it’s coco. I’m trying to keep it moist, I water once a day with a syringe, 80ml per plant.

[sparker]

Ahhh, ok, I’m a soil guy.

[aussie123556]

@MagicCultivator420

G’day mate welcome to the forum i noticed you said 1150 ec i assume you mean ppm an is too high mate an also double check ya ph too ,swik used this picture as a guide for coco photoperiods and 15 days in would not have ppm over 400 ppm an even that’s high for 15 days,not sure on auto’s tho mate or what they like for early stage veg feeding.hope the pic helps a bit.gd luck mate

[MeEasy]

I’ll be no help with the nutrients side of this one. I’m a dirty organic guy and haven’t played with synthetic for a while.

As for the light intensity yes that’s my scribbling on that chart. It’s a rough idea on how I set my lights. I know it says clones but it’s the same for seedlings. I normally start around a dli of 15 and start going up around the end of week two of putting them in the dirt. 22 is were I have the ones growing now in week 3 and I’ll go up a little every week

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again everyone, and thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate everyone pitching in to help. This community is so awesome.

@aussie123556 Thanks for your reply. No, I actually did mean 1150 EC, so in PPM on my meter that would be 575. I’m getting to this amount by doing a Week 1 mix from Advanced Nutrients’ feed chart (which comes out at 1300 EC), and diluting it a bit water RO water. Yep, I double checked my pH, it’s at a stable 5.8, I use pH Perfect, so it locks it in that range for a week. I sent the same pics and question to Advanced Nutrients, and they replied back stating that I am actually underfeeding by diluting it. They said that due to the way their pH Perfect nutes are, EC/PPM isn’t really a good measure, and to just stick to the feed chart Kind of a bummer not having an accurate way to test it. Here is their reply in case anyone is interested, or anyone else using AN encounters the same issue:

'Please note due to the make up of the pH Perfect base nutrients containing pH Buffers, humic acid, fulvic acid etc… PPM/EC is not a particularly accurate measuring metric.

As such please follow the nutrient calculator schedules to ensure an appropriate amount of nutrition is being provided to the plants. Diluting them will result in underfeeding.’

@MeEasy Thanks also for your reply, I really appreciate it, it’s not the first time you’ve helped me. Yeah, I know you grow in soil and organic, I follow your ‘What is going on now’ thread, so I didn’t expect you to pitch in on the nutes side, I tagged you in solely for the DLI question since we both have the same light. I adjusted the lights to get 15 DLI last night, and the plants responded well to it so far Just making sure we agree on height and intensity, to get to 15 DLI, I’m at 36 inches and intensity 60% on the dimmer. Is this the height and intensity you start out with, or do you keep the lights closer but less intensity, say 24 inches 40% intensity for example? By seedlings, how big will your plants be? I’m asking cause I start my seeds in a small propagator with a battery powered light and get them out of there as soon as they’re around 2-3cm tall. Start 18/6 lighting under the ES300 with just the cotyledons open. I saw in your thread that you have a more decent propagator than I do, so asking if your plants will have more foliage before putting them under the ES300, cause mine will literally just be sprouts when they go under the ES300.

Thanks again everyone. I truly appreciate everyone’s time and effort.

[aussie123556]

@MagicCultivator420 G’day mate yeah they mean week 1 like after germination 3 weeks stage,like week 3-5 really from seedthen week 1 of veg starts your nutes are too high but yes 1150 is correct on hannah scale

1.1 E.C but yeah i pretty sure they mean veg not week 1 or germination, i double check that mate as is all i can think an a little claw bending on 1 of them i see but yeah i am not familiar with those nutes sorry,hope this helps,week 1 of veg is like week 4 from seed swik had the same problem lol is a learning curve for sure you going good

[MeEasy]

I do see you spreading plant love over there on my thread thank you

Yes I like to keep my lights lifted up, I don’t really measure them much anymore so I am just guessing but I start em up around 35-40" and I think it’s around the 5 on the dimmer. I’m getting lazy now that I have a meter to measure dli n ppfd when I start I literally sit the meter on the top of my soil and mess with the dimmer until I get the number I want. Then I pretty much go by my scribbling on that chart. Of course you will have to watch the plants because you’re going to get some bitchy plants that don’t like the light intensity as much as the others, I’ll normally just push these to the side keeping the plants that want the light in the middle where the most light intensity is

I have that sprouter to pop my seeds in. Using the rapid rooters it takes them 6 or 8 days to show me the second set of true leaves that’s my que to get them dirty. If you can’t wait it’s fine as long as you are able to keep the humidity up over 50% you should be fine planting seedlings in with just coty leaves if you can’t keep the rh up just put some clear solo cups on them for a few days to keep the moisture up for em taking it off a few hours at a time, keep adding more time uncovered every day until you just leave the cups off. It’s not absolutely necessary it’s just something I used to do and it seemed to help em get started

Here’s about where I get them dirty, there’s always something that will make me go a little earlier or later but this is what I like to see

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again @aussie123556 and good day to you too Thanks once again for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it Thanks for the Week 1 clarification, that helps, I was always in doubt whether it meant straight after the sprouts come out of the ground or Week 1 of veg. Yeah I noticed the clawing, they got a little beat up in the beginning but they’re looking healthier now (pics below, these were taken today). Oh yes, definitely a learning curve, but I’ll keep at it! I love this hobby although it’s difficult.

@MeEasy Thank you so much also for your long and informative reply. Your words are invaluable, and I appreciate your time writing it. Thanks for the lighting tips, I’ll definitely put them to good use! As for the sprouter, yeah, I have this little thing called the RQS Starter Kit:

It’s not the best thing, but it gets the job done, and these fit perfectly into it (Rapid Rooters don’t exist in my country, and the cost to import them is ridiculous for some rooters):

It has a small 5W light powered by 2 batteries which is why I like to get the sprouts out of there asap cause they start stretching very fast inside it. Yeah, as domes to keep the RH up I use a 2 Ltr water bottle cut in half, and I poked 2 holes in it for some ventilation (can’t get solo cups either here in Europe cause of new anti-disposable plastic laws. Cups and straws need to be made of cardboard here). That’s very interesting about taking the domes off for a few hours a day, never tried it that way. I just used to leave them on and mist the inside of the domes/water bottles 3 times a day to keep the RH up, then when I see the plants establishing themselves a bit I take them off. I’m guessing you do this so you avoid shocking them from a sudden huge shift in humidity? I agree with you on the domes helping to get them started, my first grow was stunted like crazy till I put the domes on.

Cheers again for all the replies everyone, I really can’t thank you all enough. Happy 4/20 to all!

[MeEasy]

The original light that came with the sprouter did the same thing making them stretch out like crazy. Id put a bowl under the tray to lift them up closer to the light. It helped but eventually I built a little frame to hang a couple old led boards I used to use for seedlings over the sprouter I’ve only done one round with it and I used different rooters this time so I’m not sure which one they didn’t really like but I’ll go back to the rapid rooters next time then I’ll know if it’s the light they didn’t like

[MagicCultivator420]

Ah, so it’s not just my crappy 5W light that does it lol. That’s a very good idea with the bowl, it’s definitely worth giving it a shot next grow! Thanks for the idea. Dang, that’s a nice setup! Well done as always Mr. MeEasy Hopefully it’s the rooters so you can keep using your frame

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again everyone Saw some nice improvements since I last posted in this thread 2 weeks ago. Got some questions which I’ll get to at the bottom of this post, let me introduce the plants first

First off, here’s a pic of all of them together:

Individual pics:

Blue Dream Auto:

Blackberry Auto:

Gorilla Cookies Auto:

All plants are a month and 1 day old since the seeds hit water. All of them started showing pistils around a week ago. Transplanted from those small orange pots in my earlier post to Air Pots 5 days ago. I topped them 4 days ago and attempted the MeEasy method to get 8 main colas and open them up a little bit more. So, here are my queries:

1. Since these are autos, I’m not sure if they started budding, mainly the Blackberry. What do you all think? What about the other 2 plants?
2. I’m still feeding Grow nutrients, should I switch to Bloom nutes?
3. In order from left to right, the Blue Dream is Sativa dominant, the Blackberry is Indica dominant, and the Gorilla Cookes is a 55/45 mix. The Blackberry is much taller than the other 2 in comparison (around 6 inches more) although it is Indica dominant. Am I doing something wrong? The Sativas should be taller shouldn’t they?
4. The Gorilla Cookies has some tacoing leaves Is this heat stress? Temp in the tent is 24C(75F) with lights on, 21C(70F) with lights off. Seems like it’s in the appropriate range for veg, so why is she showing heat stress symptoms?
5. @MeEasy This one is for you again since we have the same light, just want to make sure I’m not dialing in intensity too fast. Really sorry to tag you directly again I’m at 36 inches from the plants, with intensity on the dimmer at 9.5. DLI is 22 - 27 (depends on which plant I measure). Am I going up in intenisty too fast? Seeing 9.5 quite high for just 1 month old plants, but then DLI is low in comparison to your DLI chart.

Thanks in advance to everyone as usual. Really appreciate how much you all chip in to help me

[MeEasy]

It’s takes a lot of light to get 25-30 dli from 36" away but I like to do mine that way to because in my little mind it gets the plants used to the brightness of the light while keeping the intensity down. So imo you are doing great you probably won’t have to turn the light up anymore. Just use distance to adjust the intensity now… photoperiod plants might need more power because when you go to 12/12 it takes more light to get to a good dli.

I’m having trouble with my eyes but I think I see some pubic hairs coming in you’ll have some hedgehogs in no time. I like to do veg food in the beginning then a half n half veg flower mix then finally all flower once the flowers are there. So yes I would start the half n half about a month in on autos… photoperiod plants get their first half n half food about a week before I switch the lights to 12s. This is my way with organic nutrients, others might have a better plan using synthetics

As for the height of the plants, plants are like children … even with the same parents they will grow however they grow not how anything tells them to grow think about kids with the same parents, they don’t look, grow, eat, drink, etc. the same. Plants are the same way

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again @MeEasy I really would like to thank you for your time in replying to me. I truly do appreciate it. You’re so informative and so humble at the same time. Thank you for the confirmation about the light intensity, and also for guiding me about not needing to increase anymore intensity and just use distance now. I’ll definitely use all the tips you give me!

Yeah all 3 plants have pistils, maybe not so clear in the pics, I’m not the best photographer haha. I shot over an email to Advanced Nutrients, they stated to switch to Bloom nutes as soon as white pistils appear for autos. Just putting this here in case it helps someone else that comes across this thread and uses AN also.

Yeah, I gather that all plants are individual and living things, just found it weird that the one that’s meant to be the shortest one ended up being the tallest lol. I’m still pretty new at this so I wouldn’t have been surprised if I did something to mess it up lol, so the confirmation is helpful These plants really do surprise us!

Thanks again as always @MeEasy and this community, you all have really been so amazing!

[MeEasy]

I never mind trying to help, holler at me anytime. As for the pictures I think they are good pictures I’m just having trouble with my eyes, I think I might be getting cataracts. It’s like I’m looking through a foggy windshield all the time

[MagicCultivator420]

Thanks @MeEasy I really do appreciate that, it’s so nice of you. Ohh damn, that’s terrible, I’m really sorry to hear that Thought it was just an expression cause of a bad angle in my photos or something like that. Wish that was what you actually were referring to rather than actually getting vision problems. You’ve been through so much with your health, it’s really unfair Please go get that checked out without too much delay, eyesight is critical. (I reckon the most important from all the senses) REALLY wishing you the best and hope it’s nothing serious

[MeEasy]

I’m waiting to see the Dr next month hopefully it’s something they can fix. Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated

[MagicCultivator420]

Glad to hear you’re working on it REALLY hoping for the best for you. Please take care of yourself, and thank you again soooo much!

[MagicCultivator420]

Hello again everyone, the plants really seem to have picked up the pace nicely since the last time I posted about them I just have one plant showing worrying symptoms of what I think is nute burn? The one showing issues is the Blue Dream. I’ll post pics of all the plants so you can see a comparison to the other 2 plants, all are being fed the same mix:

Blue Dream (the smaller one on the left):

Blackberry:

Gorilla Cookies:

Full tent shot:

I mix a reservoir of 50 litres to avoid mixing nutes everyday. EC of the mix is coming in at 2400 (1200 PPM), I checked the runoff of the Blue Dream, and the EC surprised me at 1680. I thought EC would be higher in the runoff since it is getting tip burn, not lower

-Am I correct in thinking this is a nutrient excess and not a deficiency?

-And why is the runoff EC lower than the input EC if the plant is getting nute burn?

-What would your suggestions be to remedy this?

For now, I am mixing in the reservoir and bringing up enough water I need daily with a pump to a bucket, then proceed to handwater manually, but in the future (hopefully the next grow, this reservoir will be connected to an automated watering system).

-For now it is not a problem to diagnose and treat each plant individually, but when I do have everything set up on an automated watering system and something like this occurs, what do I do?

Thanks in advance for any help as always everyone, this grow finally picked up after a crippled start, so I don’t want it all to go to waste after seeing some nice results finally.