My Blue Dreams are having major issues, afraid they won't make it - could sure use some advise

Troubleshooting
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Hi again everyone. I’m having issues with my Blue Dreams I’m hoping to resolve.

-What strain, Seed bank, or bag see (photo or auto) Blue Dream fem (photo) from ILGM
-Age of Plant Day 118, 6 wks 0 days since flip, 4 wks 5 days since flower
-Method: Soil w/salt, Organic soil, Hydroponics, Aquaponics, KNF 70% Coco Loco/30% FFOF w Nature’s Living Soil mixed in the lower third of pot (started seedlings in Solo cups = 100% Coco Loco)
-Vessels: Type and capacity of container (fabric, plastic, etc) 5 gal fabric
-PH and TDS of Water, Solution, runoff (if applicable) well water adjusted to 6.5 pH during veg until problems // Now 5.9 - 6.0 in, 6.7 – 6.8 out (last runoff 1 wk ago)
-PPM/TDS or EC of nutrient solution (if applicable) 900 – 100 ppm (see below)
-Method used to measure PH and TDS Apera PC60
-Indoor or Outdoor (if indoor, size of grow space) Indoor; tent 4x2x60 AC Infinity, tent 3x2x80 (homemade)
-Light system (list brand and wattage/spectrum) 4x2 tent = HLG 350R, 3x2 tent = 2 x Maxisun MF1000 & 1 x PB1000
-Actual wattage draw of lights no meter
-Current Light Schedule 12/12
-Temps; Day / Night 75-80F Day / 70-75F Night
-Humidity; Day / Night 45% - 60% Day & Night
-Ventilation System; Yes or No (Size?) 4x2 tent = 6 inch exhaust only / 3x3 tent = 4 inch intake only
-AC, Humidifier, De-humidifier; Yes or No Window AC in tent room / Humidifier = Yes / De-humidifier = No
-Co2; Yes or No No

To give a little background, I had yellowing issues during veg. Some of the 5 plants had whole branches lighten and yellow while other branches didn’t. I think this had something to do with maybe a non-thorough soil mixing process when I blended the Coco Loco and FFOF or maybe the mixture itself (more on that in a bit) It became apparent to me at one point I wasn’t watering deep enough for keeping the bottom third moist and may have let the soil dry too much, I started watering to slight run-off once a week and found pH to be high, in the 7.0 - 7.5 range. A couple slurry tests I had done mid veg were low, at 5.72 and 5.84. I was always pHing my water to 6.5. This erratic pH could be a result of what a wise grower suggested to me about mixing the soil with the Coco Loco.

The soil manufacturer Rep indicated to treat my mixture like soil but I’m not so sure now that the Coco Loco and soil are that compatable. I think I have been fighting it all along. Since, I have been running my fluids in at 5.9 - 6.0 pH, when I take my weekly run-off numbers, the pH out is running 6.6 - 6.8. Now I know that this little run-off is not an accurate picture but it’s what I had to work with and I became concerned about the ppm’s, It was around 2200 - 3800 ppm when I first started getting run-off, but it has steadily decreased.

After getting the pH somewhat under control, the girls improved late in veg and I would have let them get healthier before flipping but was concerned about stretch room so I flipped the lights after 8 full weeks of veg. I didn’t have anything really to top dress with during veg as this Nature’s Living Soil mixture is supposed to carry it from seed to harvest but I was giving them H2O, a little epsom salt/molasses occasionally and some mykos occasionally. Because of the ppm’s beginning to decrease, I did top dress them a couple times with Coco Loco and I think that helped the yellowing some in veg.

A couple days after flipping lights and a week before the first signs of flowers, I top dressed with Girl Flower Power. And as per NLS Rep., started out the flower stage feeding/watering on a schedule or top dress/water/compost tea/water but later switched to a tea/water/tea/water schedule along with top dressing once a week, using Soil Revival once a week (NLS’s soil pro-biotics, they say it is mild enough to use daily), and a little epsom salt occasionally.

But the girls have steadily become lighter in color every day and many leaves have dried up and fallen off. When day 21 rolled around, I didn’t have to do any defoliating, the girls had already taken care of that. I’m really worried she’s going to start canabalizing the buds when there’s no leaves left to devour.

I am watering daily now and I usually give them anywhere from 32 - 48 fl. oz. and on the days I take it to slight run-off, it takes anywhere from 64 - 80 fl. oz. So It’s using every bit of it…the water anyway. Can a cannabis plant become nutrient locked to a certain nutrient and still uptake that much water daily or are those two things not connected? I have really tried to refrain from doing the nutrient vendor’s suggested mini-flush when nutrient issues are noticed as you might have already picked up on.

And I wish I could write a troubleshooting topic when I’m having trouble without it turning into a mini novel or grow journal :smirk:. I want to give y’all some background and wind up rambling on.

So are my girls starving? Do they need more food. Or am I way off base? What do I need to do for them?

On a little side note: I’ve read here in this forum about using molasses, that it actually doesn’t do anything for the plant, but gives the micoroganisms food to feast on. (?) Well, I mix the bloom booster GFP/molasses tea by the instructions, and the ppm reads 900 - 1000. If I put in only the measured Girl Flower Power, I get barely 400 ppm and 120 of that come in my tap water. It takes me twice the tablespoons to reach 750 ppm. I’m not sure how much ppm should be in a bloom booster so this might mean nothing.

This is all leading me to think they are just hungry and I’m hoping this can be resolved. Or is this normal for 5 weeks of flower. I’m not seeing it to this degree in other pictures. ILGM Blue Dream photos are projected at 9 weeks till harvest. If that’s from the flip of the lights, they have at least 2 or 3 to go. If that time if from first signs of flowers, there could be 4+ weeks to go. I’m not sure they’ll make it at this rate.

I have on hand some Coco Loco, Happy Frog Soil Conditioner, NLS Girl Flower Power, NLS Soil Revival, Gaia Green 4/4/4, Gaia Green 2/8/4 and Mykos. I was going to feed them the 64 - 80 fl. oz., 12 of which will be Soil Revival mix, the rest being tea, to slight run-off tonight (or maybe wait until tomorrow depending on what comments and/or advise I get). Then at next feeding, I was thinking of top dressing with at least Gaia Green 4/4/4. I’m thinking the plants are taking from the healthy leaves what it’s lacking from the unhealthy veg stage. Am I wrong here? If none of these products will do the trick, what would you suggest I need?

The makers of Gaia Green says to top dress with 4/4/4 & 2/5/4 once like a week before flower and then again 3 weeks into flower, and then if extended flower stage, again at 6 weeks. So I figured I would be ok, but not sure if I should use the 2/8/4 since I’ve been already giving it NLS’s bud booster, as weak as it may be. The colas are pretty well developed imho, certainly more developed than with my first two grows. Would it be detrimental to give them too much bud booster?

Sorry for this short novel. Any help and advise you could give me will be greatly appreciated.

One week ago. 03/19/23

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Next 2 pics - Today. 03/26/23

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I also meant to mention I have an assortment of FF chemical nutrients left over from previous grows but I didn’t figure I needed to but just in case.

I also forgot to tag the pro @MidwestGuy I quoted and, to the best of my memory, a few other organic growers in the neighborhood. @MeEasy @JaneQP @Graysin and any other grower, organic or not, who can shed some light on my problem (and I’m not talking psychiatric - at this time anyway :crazy_face:) :vulcan_salute:

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6.7-6.8 in soil is good. I’d not be feeding so low (5.9-6 is dangerously low for soil - coco loco is a soil hybrid, and should be treated like soil)

Why? I’m curious because you’re adding magnesium by adding Epsom, but I’m not seeing any calcium supplementation.

Again I’ll ask why? Are they drinking enough that the pot is getting light (easy to lift) every single day?

I’m worried for a few reasons. The added magnesium sets the 2:1 Ca:Mg ratio out of balance. The daily watering is more than likely keeping your root zone so wet that the roots are suffocating. You may starting to see starvation not because she has no food but because she can’t eat. Give her more water (enough to start getting runoff) but less frequently. I’d expect every 3-5 days in 5 gallons of soil. Daily is too often.

As an aside, I’d consider top dressing with:

If haven’t done it yet, I highly suggest at least the 4-4-4. Plants don’t need very much N in flower, so don’t go overboard, but she may need more than she’s getting.

I’d start by getting your watering situated and see if that slows the progression of the yellowing. If your pH is in range (6.5-6.8) and you’re waiting for the pot to get light (lift it, if it’s a struggle it’s not time to water yet), and the yellowing continues, then food is the answer.

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Great breakdown @Graysin !

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When I was feeding them at 6.5 (+, -), the run-off was around 7.4 and the leaves were showing stress and had signs of nutrient deficiency. When I dropped the pH going in, the plants relaxed and improved. Now when I pH the compost tea at 6.0, run-off is 6.7 – 6.8. When I use water only at 6.0, run-off pH goes above 7. This is erratic compared to what I experienced growing with straight FFOF in the past, I’ve been blaming it on my soil mixture. So I should pH higher going in, no matter what run-off is?

This is an area of knowledge I know I’m weak in – what organic sources of cal/mag is best? I read where some cal/mag supplements are not so safe for organic growing and some are too high in N (like the Botanicare brand I have). Also read that Epsom salt (1tsp) /molasses (1tbsp) per gal was a good source of cal/mag. No? (My gals didn’t like the 1 tsp Epsom salt/gal, backed it down to ½ tsp, they reacted much better)
I too was also concerned about the calcium once I read the plant didn’t use the molasses. I did boil some egg shells a few days ago and added that water to the tea but I couldn’t tell you the ratio with that.

Do you have a product recommendation? I am a student ready to learn.

I had/have concerns about this myself. (I can’t figure out how to keep a 5 gal pot of soil moist throughout when watering a young plant that only takes a cup or two, still learning on that one.) Anyway, in flower I was watering to slight run-off every third day (4th day the pots were too light) and it was taking anywhere from 64 – 80 fl. oz. each time. Then the pots were too light on the third day so I was giving them 64 – 80 every 2 days. They even started getting rather light after 48 hrs. I got concerned that the soil was getting too dry between watering, compromising the microorganisms and the Coco could become hydrophobic, which seemed to be happening on the surface. It needed to stay moist, no?, so I figured since they were using 64 – 80 every 2 days, I would water daily at 32 – 40 and take it to slight run-off like once a week. This has been the last two weeks. They haven’t been giving me the tell tale droopy signs of over watering but then they never gave me the signs I’m used to when they were thirsty either. So I should go back to every 2 days then and maybe give the surface a sprinkle on the in between day to keep it moist? Or go with a cover mulch to keep it from drying?

I have not. The only thing I’ve top dressed it with is the Nature’s Living Soil Girl Flower Power bud booster and the 444 is what I was thinking since their basic nutrient health was not up to proper levels coming out of veg.

So how do I know if this has happened, N toxicity and/or nute burn? By the time I see the signs of this it’s too late right? Or can something be done at that point?

Thank you so much @Graysin I’m trying not to be a pain in the :zipper_mouth_face: :laughing:

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I’ve been using a tad of this organic calmag by TPS for about a year now, and it’s nitrogen-free. I don’t know why the $179 bottle shows up in the link description, lol, but they have a quart size for $24. :upside_down_face:

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Cover to keep the surface from becoming hydrophobic is a good idea. Alternatively, just water slower when you water. It’s a test of patience to get the surface moist again, I won’t lie, but slow and steady prevents my coco from being too hydrophobic- even when it’s almost bone dry.

N toxicity is deep green, almost waxy leaves. It’s also clawing downward, almost like the tips of the leaves want to curl under. You’re nowhere near that and a 4-4-4 when following the label instructions won’t add enough to be problematic.

Epsom is magnesium sulfate. All Epsom + molasses provides is magnesium, sulfur, and some helpful acids (the molasses is carbohydrates and breaks down into acid via the microbe life). It contains some calcium, but not enough to matter and actually contains more magnesium than calcium, so molasses alone helps throw the 2:1 balance off.

I suggest Roots Organics CalMag, General Organics CalMag+, or TPS Organic CalMag. Honestly, the TPS is the one I’ve used personally and enjoyed. It has high Ca (4%) compared to 1% Mg, which allows you to continue to use supplements like molasses to feed your microbes without being detrimental to the Ca:Mg ratio.

This is where my knowledge of organics is a bit lacking. I would use a flush to reset the pH - run lots of water at 6.5 through until the in and out were aligned - I hesitate to suggest that here because I know that organics depend on the healthy micro biome. I’ll tag in @The_Cannabowlist , who if I recall is using NLS and may have some good insight about how to get your pH down naturally without needing a flush and without consistently feeding too low of a pH.

Not at all. We’re here to help!

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Great recommendation - that’s my preference too.

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Awesome. That $24 is more in tune with my budget! Thanks, I’ll get some on order.

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I do try to do just that, even if I’m using 100% soil. watched a youtube video couple years back about that.
So you’re growing in coco huh? I thought you were growing organic?

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I’m in pure coco, I’m not organic in my indoor plants - I use Jack’s 3/2/1 for my indoor coco plants. I have some soil cooking now using Highway Dust for outdoor autoflowers.

I do my best to try every grow method at least once, I can help more people the more versatile my own grows can be.

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Ahhh, cool. Coco, I hear it keeps you busy and time is something I have very little of. But IO think I would like the “control” it gives a grower. And I’ve been reading up on the Highway Dust, I may jump to that next. I was thinking of giving this NLS another go around. If I can lessen the d-Jawz factor, NLS may turn out to be rather successful.

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I use auto pots - self watering bases - to minimize the time I spend with my plants. If I’m honest; I only check on them once every other day, and have to refill my reservoir once every 4-7 days. I need hands-off grow methods, I work 2 jobs and a lot of the time for one of them is spent out of town. Sometimes I disappear for a week, I need to know my plants are self-sufficient.

:joy::rofl: I sympathize entirely. My first several grows were just plain awful. These days I have most everything dialed in, but it was a trial getting there. Don’t ever let anyone pretend they had it all figured out on the first try. Or second. :v:

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So I fed the girls the tea I had already mixed the day of my last post. Watered in with pH 5.9 until slight run off, took some readings out: pH 6.7, ppm range between all 5 was 1360 - 2650.

Two days later the pots getting lighter, I top dressed with the Gaia Green 444 & 284 at half the directed amount so as not to over-do it, and added some worm castings. Not sure that was smart, I’ve since read where it may not have been. Anyway, water going in was pH 6.1, numbers coming out were pH 7.2 - 7.5 (whenever I use water only, the pH comes out high)

A few hours later, the CalMag came in and I gave each one 12 fl oz at the high end of the ratio/gal.

Yesterday, I watered with H2O only at pH 5.9 and numbers out were pH 7.2 - 7.5 again, ppm range 725 - 1150. (huh?) I would expect them to be higher. With the Nature’s Living Soil on the bottom, alternater feedings (over-feeding I thought) with the Girl Flower Power top dress and tea w/molasses, the soil revival microbe booster twice in the last month and now the top dressing. :worried: :anguished:

Now today, I did a slurry test trying to get this pH problem narrowed down thinking it has been the root of my problems. The first test I got soil from about mid point to the stalk but only about 1 1/2 to 2 inches down because of the root system. The numbers were pH 7.35, ppm 247. WHAT?

I had to do another. This time I went down half way to the bottom, but because of the roots, is was out at the edge. These numbers were pH 6.96, ppm 406.

Btw, I perform the slurry test as I saw instructed on a youtube video, 1 part soil in glass, 2 parts distilled water, let soak 15+ mins (I go more).

What am I missing here? Where are all of the nutrients? I would think I should be seeing much higher ppm numbers, especially the first watering after the top dressing and then from the soil the day after that. I’m confused. I’m tempted to run some water through one of them tonight to see what the run off numbers are compared to the slurry test numbers but don’t want to over-water.

And then I don’t know whether to continue giving them only water which I thought I was going to be doing after top dressing but not sure now. I know the top dress prior to flower stage and the one 3 weeks later is for when the plants & soil are healthy which mine are/is not but I thought half a dose would last longer. Maybe a slurry test is not that accurate for ppm reading for nutrients throughout? I don’t know.

I do know that the ladies are not dormant. The leaves continue to yellow, dry up and fall off, and the buds continue to bulk up. At this rate, they will be completely lollipopped in another week or two.

I don’t know what to do. Do I continue to feed it the organic ammendments I have been at the same rate, or higher rate? Do I give up on the organic at this late point (Flower wk 5, day 4) and switch to chemical nutrients? As you can tell, I am totally lost here :pleading_face: and any assistance I can get will be greatly appreciated. :v:

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@Graysin @Twelve1 @BobbyDigital I hate to interupt anyone’s evening but I could sure use your opinions. If you could read my update from yesterday :point_up_2: sorry it’s lengthy again.

I guess I’m going to feed the girls some of the Girl Flower Power tea here in a couple hours. I hate to go in with only water and the nutrients in the soil are weak, I think I’d be in a big hurt.

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Pics of the plants would help. I wonder if you’re paying too much attention to numbers when the plants are progressing fine.

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Thanks for the reply. You may be right. I just know there’s been a problem for some time. I did very little defoliation at day 21, only to open a few bud sites. All the missing foliage has yellowed, dried up and fallen off. I did a little trimming of dead tips a couple days ago.

Sorry, My samsung takes horrible pics. I’ve tried to improve it but nothing I do seems to work. I’m about to see if I can find my old Note 4 still around here somewhere.

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Sorry, fogot to tag you on the pics. :laughing: :v:

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It happens to the best of us.

They look great. What are the trichomes looking like? Honestly I think you could probably just let it ride the way it is and not waste your money throwing bloom boosters at it. I’d be harvesting those anywhere between next Saturday and a couple weeks from today, depending on the trics.

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Agreed with Graysin.

Reminds me that I should start looking at one of my plant’s trichs and defol the yellows that are starting to wilt, she looks worse than yours, lol. Neither did I add a bloom booster later in the game, and she’s been filling in just fine.

Sorry for the late reply, family stuff lately.

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