Major PH issues...how to correct?

Grow Support
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“I’m having some major water ph issues and need some help! Thought you gurus might be able to help!?”

I’ve recalibrated the ph meter multiple times with brand new 7.0 solution (blue labs) and tried to create a repeatable recipe for water…however for the past several runs over about the last year I’ve had severe water ph issues…that have in turn had detrimental impact on the ladies!

Never had any ph issues for ~45 years (25 years here using this same spring water source brought in via pumphouse) until about 3-4 years ago.

I tried recharge but can’t seem to get the water ph right, so I’m still just reintroducing incorrect ph’ed water each watering, which further causes the issue.

Currently pre-water softener water is 7.8ph. It always depends but usually it should be ~1.25ml/gallon of water to bring it down 1 ph pt right? Using general hydroponics ph down.

Here’s what doesn’t make sense…I add 10ml of ph down to a 5 gallon bucket it takes it from 7.8 to 6.9 (stirring water well and churning it bt 2 buckets, even when leaving it overnight and restirring n rechurning). But then when I add another 5ml it only takes it from 6.9 to 6.7 (total of 15ml), and another 5ml takes it 6.7 to 6.5 (total of 20ml)…which still isn’t down to where I’d like the water ph to be (6.0-6.3), but i can repeat this cycle of gettingthe water to these levels. According to the meter it’s taking ~30ml of ph down to get the water ph from 7.8 down to 6.3.

That’s farrrrrr too much ph down right?!?!

Something is off and the ladies hate it!

Could be the meter still not being calibrated/reading right? I put it in the calibration solution and it reads 7.0. I put it in distilled and it reads 7.8 (realizing dostilled has nothing to “bind” to).

I’m at a total loss and it’s become the most frustrating thing I’ve dealt with in my 40+ years of growing.

In the meantime is there a brand(s) Of bottled water I can use in a pinch until I get the ph situation figured out?

Any thoughts/suggestions? Thanks for any advice!

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What kind of problems in the plants were you seeing?

Are you reusing the 7.0 solution? Are you doing a 2 point calibration? 4.0-7.0?
-dipping routinely in the same solution can become contaminated and the pH you are calibrating to isnt accurate.

Are you keeping the meter clean between tests, and storing in calibration fluid or kcl solution?

Was the water softener installed around the time you started having issues?
-they say excessive salts can come from a softener and built up in the soil. This can have an impact on soil acidity.

What are the PPMs of the plain water prior to pH adjustment?
-low PPMs can cause inaccurate readings. The meter will still settle on a number though. A lot of times when the PPMs are low people add in calmag so they pH it more accurately and provide some beneficials.

The amount of ph corrections used can very greatly depending on how hard the water is. PPMs

Are you using soil? Hydro? In ground? Organic? Have you done a slurry test with the soil? Find out where the pH of that is.

Around 6.3-6.8 is good for most soils and 5.8-6.3 is good for hydro or soiless…

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Yes I just found this out going from tap water to RO to melted snow. Tap is a pia here

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I would discard solution after 5 uses.

Yes, I agree with this. :+1:
Do you clean probes of meter monthly and soak in Bluelab pH Probe KCl storage solution for 24 hours?
Not sure what you are growing in, if you are using nutrients in water ,adjust pH after adding nutrients.

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My understanding is that you can not PH water that has less than about 100 ppms. This might be your problem.

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@Low thanks so much for the informative response!!

What kind of problems in the plants were you seeing?

Initial problem starts as yellowing at the tips of the leaves, followed by it spreading to become yellow speckled leaves, then sometimes the leaves get brittle and dry/shrivel up. The new growth may come in green and healthy looking but ultimately turns into the problems listed above. It causes severely stymied flowering because the plant isn’t healthy, resulting in just pathetic light airy buds that aren’t worth the time you put in to across the run. In addition these issues make the plants so unhealthy that they become attractive to other issues…i.e. become a spider mite magnet!

Are you reusing the 7.0 solution? Are you doing a 2 point calibration? 4.0-7.0?
-dipping routinely in the same solution can become contaminated and the pH you are calibrating to isnt accurate.

This is fresh brand new 7.0 solution. I calibrated in a clean glass w new solution, then discarded and repeated with new solution and in a new glass. Got 7.0 all 3x times.
I did not 2 pt calibrate with 4.0

Are you keeping the meter clean between tests, and storing in calibration fluid or kcl solution?

This meter is relatively new, only been used a few times before this go around. Ive never cleaned it but can look into how to do so. Storing - the directions for this one say leave wet and store w the cap on, so that’s what id been doing…but since i dont use it that often id say it probably dries out. Recommendations for storage?

Was the water softener installed around the time you started having issues?
-they say excessive salts can come from a softener and built up in the soil. This can have an impact on soil acidity.

the water softener was there prior to the issues. The water i use does not go through the softener, it comes out of a spigot before the softener so it bypasses it.

What are the PPMs of the plain water prior to pH adjustment?
-low PPMs can cause inaccurate readings. The meter will still settle on a number though. A lot of times when the PPMs are low people add in calmag so they pH it more accurately and provide some beneficials.

ppms - what chemical(s)/compound are you asking about - hardness? The water quality test states alkalinity 183-278 ppm, hardness 183-249 ppm (13-14.6 grains per gallon),
Sodium 2.99-47.6 ppm, manganese <0.005 ppm, iron <0.05 ppm

The amount of ph corrections used can very greatly depending on how hard the water is. PPMs - ok gotcha, thanks!

Are you using soil? Hydro? In ground? Organic? Have you done a slurry test with the soil? Find out where the pH of that is.

using soil. Current run - Build A Soil (3.0 i believe), in past sometimes FF oceanforest, sometimes Happy Frog, further in past sometimes miracle grow yellow bag (forgot what it was called)

Around 6.3-6.8 is good for most soils and 5.8-6.3 is good for hydro or soiless…

when i was doing hydro years and years ago never had the ph issue either. Strange how it just seemed to happen and is getting worse and worse. The older i get the less attention to detail i pay…and the less patience i have, which has just compounded my frustration over the last several runs!

Thanks again for the insight and advice thus far @Low !!

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Thanks @skippyisnohippy ! The water quality test states hardness 183-249 ppm (13-14.6 grains per gallon). I was not aware of being able to ph lower ppm water though…but our water here in the hills is hard.

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Just trying to get some more info out there for others to see. :call_me_hand:t3: no problem.

Isn’t build a soil organic living? I was under the impression that pH isn’t a concern with that

Edit
Rinse probe after testing. Preferably with ro or distilled. Carefully shake off excess water and put away, it should be sitting in solution. 4.0, 7.0, or KCL. KCL is preferred. It’s the appropriate storage solution. You can use a soft bristled brush if you notice build up. Build up is rare though.

Acquiring pure KCL powder is relatively cheap and can be used to make a significant amount of storage solution. You just dissolve in purified/distilled/ro water until it’s cloudy.

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I’m on well water and it is usually about 95 ppms. I’m in coco, so I am always adding nutrients before checking ph. I have to add a half gram of epsom salts per gallon when I need water only for something. If I try to read the ph straight out of the tap or change it, it never works unless I add the epsom salts first.

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@Hashtonbutcher - thanks!

would discard solution after 5 uses.

Are you doing a 2 point calibration? 4.0-7.0?

i havent been doing the 4.0 but I’ll order some and make sure to do so from now on.

Yes, I agree with this. :+1:
Do you clean probes of meter monthly and soak in Bluelab pH Probe KCl storage solution for 24 hours?

never cleaned the probe nor storage solution, but I’ll look into how to do so and order the BL storage solution too

Not sure what you are growing in, if you are using nutrients in water ,adjust pH after adding nutrients.

growing in soil, usually 7 gal pots, sometimes 10 gal. Had been using liquid nutrients, but in my older age my looking to simplify things as much as possible and was going to try switching to Build A Soil this go round plus i figured it would be one less thing to throw a kink in ph?

Thanks again @Hashtonbutcher !

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Yep, it’s a living soil.

I hadn’t heard ph wasnt an issue with that!

This is my first go round with it. They were looking great coming out of veg room and after repotting into build a soil, but then once switched over to flower…bang same ole symptoms started.

I’ll try to grab some pics tomorrow

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Wow, awesome to know thanks for sharing @skippyisnohippy !

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Edited last post.

@LiesGrows has good info on that kind of soil.

It’s generally amended with organic inputs. Not salt based nutes. It’s supposed to buffer water to appropriate range for uptake. One of the many benefits of living soil.

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More often than not ,a dry probe{BlueLab ]is a dead probe
Important: Never use RO (reverse osmosis), deionised, or distilled water to clean probe, as they can cause permanent damage to the probe.
I always rinse with tap water as per instructions.
Other meters state to rinse with distilled but not BlueLab.
Check out Blue Lab FAQ.

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I found out its best not to put probe in distilled water

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@Boogy
Howdy Boogy
Welcome to forum :grinning:

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Appreciate the tag brother ill read through when i get home I just got off work

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Thanks and howdy back at ya.

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So after reading through this seems to be your 1st run with a organic living soil correct me if im wrong lol but with ph and organic living soils the microbiology in the soil is what does the ph buffering for the plants to then uptake and utilize when you add ph up/down and a good amount of it it really throws things out of wack below the soil and can 100% create issues! you say the plants look healthy and happy coming out of veg but then they take a turn going into flower this could be a few things but my 1st question is how big of a container size are you using?

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Couple thoughts
Did you buy the build a soil 3.0 nutrient mix that you then added to a soil? Or did you buy the bagged soil 3.0 pre cooked?
If you say took a bag of roots organic and mixed in the recommended 3.2Lbs of the 3.0 raw nutrient mix and didn’t allow it to “cook” that may be an issue. Your soil PH will be very low.

Your meter might be defective?

Maybe look into buying a simple RO system for $70 so that your water has been cleaned and remove the PH checking and adding ph down etc…simplifies things.

I’m using the build a soil 3.0 amendment mix for the first time mixed into Fox farm ocean forest and had completely forgotten I needed to cook the mix for a month or so prior to planting in it. The soil PH was fine prior to mixing it with FFOF but adding the 3.0 mix dropped it down from the 6.8 to around 5.0
I added (top dressed) dolomite lime with some oyster powder to help bring back up the soil PH on the first 2 pots I had already planted into.

Collect some run off from watering and test that run off waters PH or do a slurry test and check that PH.

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