@KoolHandLuke hey I have to give you credit for the new camera angle I’ve never taken any from down there so I went in there and did it, these are literally from 5 minutes ago lol… had to share
NOW MY HAND STINKS
NOW MY HAND STINKS
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@HanJolo I don’t have a journal I’m even more new at being on these forums so don’t know how yet. I just started here and on another one for like three months I think. Until then I’ve never written anything online no media at all, I can email lol. I posted a couple more pics of my current grow 
up there
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Looking good. Love an under skirt shot.
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@KoolHandLuke @MeEasy @HanJolo you guys have some NICE looking plants! So it would just seem I need to wait to it out a bit before i think about plucking leaves.
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Your plants are young tucking fan leaves under bud sites might be better. Pinching off a leaf here and there would be better than what I do . I let them grow big and bushy, and then give them a major hair cut. It takes several days to recover. moderation is important because the fan leaves is your power source.
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@DefNSmokn hey I wanted to apologize for hijacking your post it wasn’t my intention. In your situation I would clean off the single finger leaves on the bottom 4sure maybe the 1st real ones especially if it touches the ground. (guessing you’re new) if not maybe my babbling will help anyway lol I would try different training tricks on each one so that you can see what happens after you do whatever to them so that you can pick your style for in the future. Most important are the fundamentals, water, feeding, lights, keeping ph, damn bugs, and environment. I don’t know if you have noticed that alot of people don’t even make it to harvest on their 1st grow. If you can make it to harvest you have beat the odds don’t think you will get a pound out of a couple plants you will be disappointed. Just try different little things bend a branch see how far you can bend it (like you would kink a hose, not joking) and how quickly it recovers, it will surprise you. Just have fun read an article about training and try it on one branch or one plant. The biggest thing to remember is that you are growing a weed hence the name weed it is a strong plant and will more than likely make it to harvest with water only, we feed and put a 1000w on en to force em to give it up. As you learn to read the plants you will be able to push em. I grew outside for thirty years the oldschool way, I got sick was out for three years and started inside with these new rules and training two years ago and I am just getting good at it (never 1st in my class tho lol) and I still like trying different ways of training and hope to learn something every day. Well sorry for the book, I hope I at least helped a little good luck
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whats wrong with the monster plants? Mine grow massive buds!
This plant is huge! 12 feet tall and easily 10 feet thick?
I cant service the entire plant, its just too big! I have 30 inch donkys on this ! It aint even thick yet lol
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damn I sure miss growing outside that is why I said if you are growing outside not to pay attention to me lol beautiful plant @Cannabian just watch for mold if it rains I would hate to see any harm come to her sheeeeeee’s gorgeous
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That is the route I was kind of imagining. Ill just keep tucking them for now. Thanks!
@MeEasy No problems! You did no such hijacking!
It is my 2nd attempt. My first was subject to overwatering, never made it past seedling. Im not expecting to pull a pound being my first real run, as long as I make it to harvest, Im happy!
@Cannabian Start a religion dude, i need your blessings! I have seen you around here quite a bit and you grow some STELLAR weeds! My old man is an outdoor grower but not at this level. Its not legal here so he is used to having them hidden out and about, but just not visiting often. One day, when i dont have to worry about the law, I aspire to grow at your level! 
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Hey thanks for the props! Strangely I dont do anything special, I just plant it and water ot and feed it toward the end of the plants life. They do all the work really.
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Buds do not need sunlight to grow big.
A couple of things I think are worth mentioning when growers bring up “defoliation”. No amount of nutrients will help the plant grow, unless they are first processed through the leaves. Only then, may mobile nutrients, commonly called “plant food” continues to the buds, for growth. The real name for plant food is called “photosynthate”, but for the purpose and ease of this post, let’s use the term “plant food”.
Leaves” have two main purposes:
1st, You can thank the leaves themselves for 99% of all the uptake of water and nutrients. Plants have a very small chain of water molecules that stretch from root to leaf, within the “xylem” (the woody center part). This ionic chain phenomenon is referred to as cohesion, whereas the entire uptake, from root to leaf, is called “transpiration”. Water is basically the blood of the plant. If you cut any leaves off, you limit the plants resources of water.
2nd, Leaves make all the “plant food” that the plants use to grow, while managing waste (O2), through the stomata. The stomata are very small pore-like openings in the bottom of the leaf, which exchanges new CO2 and O2, and water evaporation. “Plant food” is made through a process called photosynthesis, with in the chloroplast. Leaves are like a big food engine, but instead of 2 fuels like a car (gas & O2), leaves have 3 fuels (CO2 & Nutrients & PAR).
So, why remove them?
I’ve never liked the term of “defoliation” as it means “to strip (a tree, bush, etc.) of leaves”, implying all of them. I prefer to use their relative nick-names, “lollipopping”, “schwazzing” or even “pruning”, to limit confusion. These methods are not something I would promote anyone who desires larger yield, especially outside in full sun or if using auto-flowering seeds. Realistically, removing “any” healthy mature leaf will hinder growth & yield. A good rule of thumb would be to let the plant itself decide naturally what she wants to keep.
Distinguishing the different terms of training, or pruning growth is also a factor. Pruning a branch off the main stem, to manipulate growth direction, is not defoliation. Defoliation includes only leaf matter.
Growth “time span”, is also something that plays a roll. Depending on the cannabis grower’s view, any plant manipulation while in vegetation cycle may not be viewed as playing a role in final yield, while referring to defoliation. As an example, a farmer could prune half the vegetation off in veg cycle, but gives enough time for the vegetation to grow back, before entering into flower. If the factor of “time” itself is removed, the outcome of yield could be viewed differently. This does not apply to Auto Flower strains, as the cycles are fixed, and not based on light cycles.
Understanding what the flower actually is, is also important. Cannabis, being an “incomplete flower”, and a “raceme” type, generally has only male or female parts, where a complete flower has both. Nowhere within the flower itself, is there any leaves. Leave form around each flower. A “Raceme” is a flower cluster with the separate flowers attached by short equal stalks at equal distances along a central stem.
The “flowers” them self, do NOT require any light. No amount of light that’s exposed to each flower will help it grow any measurable amount, or yield more. It the physical features simply aren’t there for any measurable amount of photosynthesis to occur.
In botany, a “bud” is a knob-like growth on a plant that develops into a leaf, flower, or shoot. Only in the cannabis world does it mean “flower clusters”, in a slang fashion. Realistically, referring to a “bud” would be closer to saying “cola” or “meristem”, as it contains flower and leaf, and usually the primary growth area of the shoot.
Where/what is this sink?
“Sinks cells” are areas of new growth with low osmotic pressure. Leaves are areas of high pressure, hence why “plant food” or “photosynthate”, flow from high pressure leaves, to low pressure sinks; commonly called “osmosis”. Sinks can be in the roots or the shoots of the plant (new growth). After the plant food has been manufactured in the leaves, it enters into the phloem, starting at an area in the leaf called “source cells”. From here, osmosis carries “plant food” to its destination and use.
Now for an overall recap. Nutrients use the water to hitchhike a ride, up the xylem, to the chloroplast in the leaf. The leaf processes the raw nutrient into plant food. Then, plant food, enters into the phloem, and high pressure pushes it throughout the plant to areas of low pressure and use.
I do not recommend the removal of any healthy, mature leaf.
Good luck & happy growing
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we must either agree to disagree or just disagree
That was fantastic. It makes perfect sense to me. It gives an understanding for the VPD chart and why it matters! Not just a guide to blindly follow. And for putting all that in layman enough terms to be understood!
I cant tell you how thankful I am for you taking the time to type that all out! It really is making alot of “loose-end” bits of information come full circle.
And with all of that Id say yes and no. Sometimes removing healthy leaves is actually a good idea. In the end game here in Canada, dew and rain can be an issue. Water can get trapped in between foliage and create an environment for mold or fungi to thrive. Increasing ventilation does indeed pay dividends here. Also, there actually is photosynthetic material on buds… yes there is! Here let me show you a bud or several buds with leaves projecting out of them. Buds in the shadows are generally much smaller than those in the light. Anyway, here you go… imagine light penetrating the foliage on these buds.
Indeed there are many leaves on these buds, and therefore, by extension they do much better in the sun than not.
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Sacrifice a healthy a leaf and save a bud from budrot. I get what your saying, essentially preventative maintenance should the situation arise.
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Yes, if my plants were not covered by my greenhouse, I would be strategically removing many of these solar panels to reduce the risks of both mold and mildew as well as improve ventilation in the plant. This is NOT stripping or swazzing, its reducing the canopy. Hiwever these plants are naturally defoliating as the plant ages. I have removed much of the interior growth a long time ago. I also have stripped off many of the i terior bud sites because they wont make much anyway.
Now to be fair, these plants are ot typical, they are not the standard 5 to 7 footers. They are thick!
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bud rot isnt why I would remove leaves perse, that normally is worms or caterpillar damage or boytritis. Its mostly done for PM and leaf mold, and a bit better light penetration.
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@Cannabian yes sir and you couldn’t grow something like that in my closet mainly because you wouldn’t have enough room in there to put the lights it would require to support it. You would literally have to hang lights on all 5 sides I’m talking like 5 of the $1000 lights for 1 plant. So instead of having to have all that we buy $500 worth of light and we cut the leaves off that do not help because they don’t get light so the plant produces the maximum amount of weight. My cheap ass lights only penetrates like 6-10 inches into the Top of my plants so I train them in a way to take advantage of that little bit of light. My goal is to leave enough leaves to support the buds, it’s a balance we are trying to achieve, plants and this I read in a book make more leaves than necessary to compensate for possible weather damage so it could survive a hurricane or equal damage. I read where they took every leaf off of a plant to see if it could survive and the plants had enough saved energy to produce the leaves necessary to continue living. So plants can grow without leaves is that good for optimal production NO so again we leave enough to support what we are trying to achieve. This is why I didn’t agree above because I believe my lying eyes over a book.
Even though I just wrote a book to attempt to explain what my eyes have seen work
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