Clarification Request: "DAY ONE of VEG PHASE"

I know this is going to have a run as threads go, with all of the possible opinions, but what this is centered on is this concept:

How shall we precisely identify the start of the Vegetative phase in terms of plant and leaf identification, rather than time.

(because this may vary, and achieving this point earlier or later may be an indication of environmental issues)

I honestly wonder if this period in plant development ought to be more closely addressed as a sub-phase

As I READ in Robt’s article here - the beginning of the vegetative state shows an image at about a week or more after sprouting from seed. What this image shows me is the following:

These plants (regarded as at the starting gate of the veg phase) each appear to have TWO five leaf “fans” formed, the order being seed leaf, single leaf, tri-leaf, penta-leaf (5), and a five or seven leaf fan after that - whatever. The basic is that it is OUT of the seed phase wherein the seed itself has given its leafs to the greater good. Fine…


But it will be some time after the seeds poke out their first round “things that are like leaves” until stage two is on the calendar won’t it?

I know of no accurate way to estimate that into the total length from germination to harvest at this point. :thinking:

But I do know it is an important point from which to calculate all of the rest of what Robt is telling us. For me, it seems to be the first or second branching of fully developed leaves

~Visualize me throwing up my hands…

I am at a loss here

The reason is that it can vary so much that time itself is not a consideration as a means of judging progress, but also getting to that point is also a measure of how effective the growing conditions are. If the plants get there quicker, everything is right

It’s like a race: Le Grand Prix de Cannabis

I cannot help thinking that the growth between sprout and seedling sets up everything that comes after


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i understand what you are trying to do. i dont have a good answer for you.

i think its more important to have the rest of your grow dialed in before worrying about getting off the line fastest on the trigger. its like a race, yes, but more like a marathon

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RELAX…it’s just a God Given Blessing.

And yes, once it sprouts/hatches, the clock is ticking. The seed will try it’s best to grow into a bushy healthy plant. YOU as the human factor MUST provide everything she needs to reach peak production. I start counting the veg phase as soon as the seed hatches. 4 Weeks later, I will start the flowering phase. Yes, I control the lights, nutes, media…AND…PH n PPM.
$20 will get an affordable PH n PPM Meter set. DO NOT AVOID THIS !!!

It is wise to get fresh healthy seeds from a quality source…like ILGM. Pick out a strain that is an easy grow. WW is often a good choice.

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Everything you just said in the above “CLICKS”

I was looking at PPM meters both desk or wall mount or as a remote hand held checker online when I wrote this OP

“If you can’t measure it - you don’t know (insert disgusting image here)”

I NOTE that with your successes you COUNT ON a four week from hatchling to beginning of flower. I assume you have optimized it all and I have still to get there

What can I say?

So the BUZZ is that “SEED Cracks Shell” + 4 weeks = begin flower production
*Robt B, take note

~IAW what you report…

Is this a reasonable target?

  • there may be adverse things to correct that may slow this development stage down…

But the essence of what I am saying here is that if everything is tuned, finely, for this starting point - it could change everything after

Something about that seems shocking to me. From “White Tail” (tip of the beginning root sticking out of the seed shell) to end of vegetive stage and chasing big flowers at ONE MONTH…

I don’t think I observed that well, or the timing got funky. Whatever - IF MINE do not get as good as yours do in that same amount of time - your methods and plant environment are better…

That’s an obvious one

LOOKIT, I used to body build when I “VAR JUNG FELLA By JOE” and the first rule of the gym is to look at who is giving advice

If it works, they are HUGE

If a skinny kid is telling you what to do flip the dude off…

Same applies to plant growing: “Consider the source”

~ and thank you!


PS: Can anyone think of any good reason why any stage of plant development should be ignored?
We should always be thinking about what we can do for them


“There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch”
~Robt Heinlein

Anyway, stage development is clearly shown by leaf development. WHEN those leaves appear is the question and if they can be assisted to generate faster that would be prime

At this very early stage in their development the bigger and stronger they can be, the better

Lush and vibrant! How to get that…

Do you feel it as I do? If the environment is right they are like a forrest in small scale… :sparkling_heart:
At risk of seeming daffy you can feel the life


~ I look forward to reading an article by Robert B. about this.

If such has already been written -
Please link all the related articles below in your posts, and thank you in advance!

The body of knowlege here is enormous and I have no idea how to sort it out :thinking:


Don’t over think it. Always double back to what you know.
You know when Veg ends…that’s when flower starts.
You know when Veg starts, that’s when “Seedling stage” ends…but when does Seedling Stage end?

The seedling stage can be considered complete when the plant is no longer running off its own power and has two or three sets of leaves not counting the cotyledon…or just about the time you start to feed it.

However, when someone asks me how long I veg…I count from Day 0.


When does flower start, when you flip the lights, or when you first see flowers?
Inquiring minds want to know


Personally, I go by when I see the first pistils.


How are you my friend


Having a bad day. I get another transfusion tomorrow and that should help but I am bleeding internally somewhere so until they figure that out I have to go through this


Sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers are with you


Feel better. Sending a fresh set of good vibes.


I start counting when the lights flip because it gives me a solid counting date not subject to my bad guesses or arbitration…I just start counting sunsets lol. I keep my notes and compare grow to grow.


We never met, but I hope you feel better soon!