Can you help me indentify what is going on with the leaves

[john.m]

Hi community. I’m consider myself inexperienced grower. This is my second grow. My first one was 9 years ago and it went good.
I’m growing autoflower, indoors, in the soil, using ready mix - BioBizz All-Mix. The plant is 27 days old (from germination).

Tent is 60x60x150cm; LED 140W lights, active exhaust and air intake 160m3 each. I’m controlling temperature with AC and humidity with humidifier; during day time its about 27C / 65%

I’m checking pH and EC/TDS of watering and spraying solution. I’m using RO water.

Growing was going quite nicely and things were like that for first 3 weeks,
And then, all of a sudden, one day, after spraying and watering, I noticed quite huge problems with the leaves which were escalating quite rapidly, just in maybe 24 hours.

So the day and a half before I noticed this problems I spayed my plant with RO water +

• BioBizz Calmag 0.1 ml/l
• T.A. Silicate 0.4 g/l
• T.A. Urtimax 20 ml/l
• T.A. Fulvic 3ml/l
• BioBizz Alg-a-Mic 1ml/l
  pH was 6.12; TDS was 80ppm

I spray just when the night starts, to avoid light burn of wet leaves.

Next day (in plant time), after 1-2 hours after plant’s day started, I watered it with 2.5 liters of RO water +

• T.A. TriPart Grow 1.5 ml/l
• T.A. TriPart Micro 1.0 ml/l
• T.A. TriPart Bloom 0.5 ml/l
• T.A. Seaweed 3 ml/l
• BioBizz Bio-Heaven 2 ml/l
• BioBizz Acti-Vera 2ml/l
• BioBizz Calmag 0.3ml/l
• Aptus Humic-Blast 0.3 ml/l
• Advanced Nutrients Piranha 2 ml/l
• BioBizz Microbes 0.4 g/ml
  pH was 6.3; TDS was 760ppm

about 36 hours later I noticed quite many leaves looking like this

it turned out that first symptoms of this stress/disease started to appear about 12-18 hours after watering, I realized that post-factum after carefully checking the photos I’m doing with the camera inside tent.

in next several days more and more leaves showed these symptoms and then things stabilized and new leaves appears to be okay, but even some new young leaves showed similar problems.

I must add that I sprayed and watered with exactly the same solution my other plant which is growing in a different tent and which is 3 days younger that this one (different strain but also autoflower) and that plant have NO single symptom of any stress. she is one happy green plant. The only noticable difference is that that second plant growing in different soil, not as rich in nutrients as BioBizz All-Mix.

I hope that members of this community can help me understand if this is overfeeding, or block or deficiency or something else.

In terms of treatment past 2 times I watered this plant with 4 liters of RO water + 0.4 ml/l of BioBizz Calmag and nothing else, as I suspect this is some kind of overfeeding, since BioBizz All-Mix is quite rich in nutrients.

Id like to know what exactly was the cause of this stress to avoid this is the future. I tried to look for similar symptoms in the google, even asked ChatGPT, but I still have no clue.

Thanks!

[MidwestGuy]

What are your runoff pH and PPM numbers? I see nitrogen tox at a minimum.

You are using a tremendous amount of products to feed the plant. I would suggest at this point that you eliminate all products other than a SINGLE Product fulfilling the plant’s NPK requirements and then go from there. The use of multiple products are going to cause all kinds of problems.

@john.m

spayed my plant

A plant should never be sprayed with anything unless absolutely necessary to treat mold or insects. Spraying invites more problems than it could ever solve.

It’s best to keep things simple.

Welcome to the forum.

[john.m]

Thanks for your input.

I realize that I use lot of products but most of them are vitamins, stimulators, etc. I enjoy trying new products and formulas, it’s one of the part of this hobby which I like

Yes, I already stopped using most of them for that plant. Just RO and CalMag for last several times

My runoff pH is 6.3-6.5
Run off TDS is quite high around 2000ppm, but as I understand with BioBizz All-Mix it will be always high until late in the growing cycle.

I never exceed 800ppm in my watering solution, so all this extra ppm in runoff they are from the soil…

What I really like to understand is what exactly happened .., I mean what element or product caused that, even if just out of curiosity ,.. and why my second plant is quite happy even so I watered and sprayed it with exactly the same solution

[Riskguy]

I agree that you should not spray an indoor plant with anything…unless working on a specific issue. They are showing signs of excess nitrogen…if you were feeding in water and foilier spray…that could be the issue. I would back off on the nutes and not spray, get good air flow.

[MidwestGuy]

@john.m

vitamins, stimulators, etc.

Such products contribute to a plants uptake of nutrients. Excess uptake of nutrients will cause problems, and it is clear from your plant’s nitrogen toxicity.

I’d suggest using a product such as Jacks 321 and adding Epsom and silica later in the grow and NO other products. Using multiple products only succeeds in harming a plant. More is NOT better.

I’m not trying to be a jerk. I’m pointing out that overfeeding a plant is going to cause problems. Pick one nutrient product and stick with it.

@john.m

2000ppm

This is far too high for a plant being fed with synthetic nutrients and is the result of using multiple nute products. Avoid feeding until runoff PPM is near 1,000 and use one single, complete nutrient product such as Jacks. There are good AN and GH options out there as well.

Fox Farm nutrients should be avoided, as they cause pH problems mid-grow.

[Growdoc]

@MidwestGuy

A plant should never be sprayed with anything unless absolutely necessary to treat mold or insects. Spraying invites more problems than it could ever solve.

Absolute truth right there!

[Venturi]

@MidwestGuy

Fox Farm nutrients should be avoided, as they cause pH problems mid-grow.

I wish you’d said “they can cause pH problems…” I use the FF trio and have never had a pH problem, but I always water to 20% runoff or more and keep runoff PPM in the neighborhood of 1100 (my water adds 100 PPM calcium and magnesium).

Otherwise, I agree with everything you (and the others) have said.

[MidwestGuy]

I have used the Trio in the past. The FF nutes are pretty salty, hence the recommended flushes 2 to 3 x each grow to keep pH in range.

The handy thing was that FF soils revert to a pH of 6.5 with a good flush down to ~300 PPM. I still grow in Happy Frog.

I’m a Fox Farm fan, but they really need to change the Trio formulation to be less salty.

[Bonjoyle]

Welcome John!!
Same input only reinforcing what others have said. Spraying cannabis is not good. It is not a houseplant. Feed the soil not the leaves. You are giving her more than she needs when watering and then blasting the leaves with the same solution. Less is always more if your targets are on point. Bad habits are hard to break and I am sure someone along the line suggested spraying the leaves before lights out. We as a group beg you to stop spraying. Water only with 5ml per gallon of cal mag and when the ppms drop to like 800, then the next time you feed go in at 1/4 or 1/2 strength while continuing to monitor pH and ppm’s.

I did not see mention of watering practices. 4 liters but how often? In soil with that amount you would not need to water again for 3-5 days depending on age and container size. container weight and/or droop will tell you she is thirsty. Overwatering can also cause all kinds of problems.

I like to throw out a few pics when giving advice

[john.m]

Guys, thanks for all your input, I appreciate it.
Wow, it seems that everyone agrees that spraying is bad thing, I must admit I never read that suggestion, but on the other hand in the past I only read one russian forum, now I decided I need to expand list of my resources where I can get the Knowledge

I must add that I never spray same solution that I prepared for watering, its always different, usually it only stims and in low concentration. But lesson learned, will not spray anymore.

My normal volume for watering is more like 2-2.5 liters every 2 - 3 days, waiting until bag will become light. I used 4 liters for last 2 times only as emergency measure, to flash out my soil.

Regarding 2000ppm run off, its only because soil mix I used, BioBizz All-Mix, is very rich in nutrients from the start, they even say that you are not supposed to add nutrients for first 3-4 weeks of growing because of that. and this is what I did. Basically for first 3 weeks I only used RO water + calmag + stims like T.A. (GHE) Pro Roots or BioBizz Root-Juice. Then on the start of 4th week I decided to water with some additional nutrients and I got all this problems. Now I understand I used too much different products at once, and I will definitely avoid that in the future.

Could you guys help me identify nitrogen toxicity, what are good signs of this kind of toxicity which are seen on my photos above, I’d like to learn.

Thanks again! I’m happy I found this place

[Storm]

Late to the party but I also see nute toxicity. The balance of nutes can in itself lock out nutrients. Calcium and mag fly together. Nitrogen can take over and start lockouts. P/K tox is easy to get using super concentrated “boosters”. Best policy In my opinion and as mentioned is a single nutrient line balanced for growth stages. These plants take what they need. We can force feed a bit but when the wall is hit the shit also hits the fan.
Just my opinion. Lighting and water have a direct effect on plants uptake also.

[Bonjoyle]

@john.m

Could you guys help me identify nitrogen toxicity

The leaves will be super green and waxy or shiny looking if you have too much N

[john.m]

Well, mine do not look super green and waxy. To the naked eye at least…

[MidwestGuy]

The dark green, waxy appearance of the leaves in all of the pics from your original post are typical of nitrogen toxicity.

[john.m]

@MidwestGuy ok, understood. Thanks.

So you think that these pale patches which appeared on the leaves are caused by nitrogen toxicity? Or some other element?

[MidwestGuy]

Hard to tell. I would avoid feeding until your runoff PPM is down to ~1,000.

[503KING]

Foiler feeding is a norm in cannabis cultivation yes? Silica is up taken through foiler feeding so much better than when given to the root system. figuring out when to foiler and what to use is probably more of an advanced growing technic but I wouldn’t say it has no place in indoor growing.

[Growdoc]

Unless there is an emergency need of it, I don’t spray. The natural way a plant uptakes is through the roots, I stay with that unless like I said, emergencies happen. Honestly, only time I spray is it treating for pests or to reverse a female with STS. Best of luck to you.