The Science behind LED

Hi!

So in my spare time I’ve been reading about LED’s, PAR, PPF, and PPFD trying to grasp everything and how to apply it when making a light choice. I thought I would share some of what I have found that has really helped me in determining what to choose, what blew away a common misconception for me, and how to call BS on LED makers.

I’ve been reading about PAR and PPF from books, but it never actually clicked in my head until after I read this article from fluence:

This article below explained to me how Cannabis utilizes PPFD along with Co2 (included is a tl;dr)

And for those of you who enjoy a tl;dr:
umol/s = Micromoles per second. For reference, at noon in California during the summer, the sun can give off 2,000umol/s!

PPF: This is the umol/s, or better described as the emission of light from the source. All bulbs give this off and should be included when choosing your light! An example:
Gavita Pro HPS 1000W (With Philips Bulb) has a PPF of 1.72/W (It gives off 1,720 umol/s at the light’s source). This rating clearly beats out quite a few LED’s, but you’re also spending the money for electric, a balast, replacement lights, and it puts off quite a lot of heat. While compared to a quality LED light you can have over 50,000 hours of light (5+ years), you use less electric, and you don’t have the issue with heat!

PPFD: It is the measurement of PPF (micromoles per second) at a specific height, such as 6" from the canopy of a plant. ** Please look at quote below for more regarding this.
Update: The number of umol photons divided by the area multiplied by the seconds will give you ppfd.
umol photons / m2(s) is the formula. Watch this video here for another explanation:

I have searched and searched but I have not been able to locate a solid formula or a way to mathmatically calculate the PPFD area just by using a light’s PPF with the addition of adding height to the equation. As far as I can tell, the best way to acquire these measurements accurately is to acquire a LUX (requires a conversion table found here: PPFD to Lux Conversion) or PAR meter and take measurements at different parts of you canopy to accurately calculate how much PPFD your plant is receiving.

How Co2 Plays into this: The more Co2 that is in the air (PPM) above natural Co2 levels (Roughly 400ppm) will allow for more light to be used in photosynthesis (PPFD)

DLI: This stands for Daily Light Intergral which is a measurement that shows the intensity of light delivered, over a square meter per day. To convert PPFD to DLI, do this:
PPFD Given Value: 100umol/s (We’ll start with this to make things easy)
Take your 100umol/s and multiply by 60 to get umol/minute (6,000umol/minute)
Multiply 6,000umol/minute by 60 again to get umol/hour (360,000umol/hour).
Now, this value is getting large, so now we have to convert from umol to mol (Micromoles to moles)
We take our value of 360,000 umol/hour and divide it by 1,000,000 to give us .36mol/hour.
We take that value and multiply it by however long we let our lights run (let’s say 18 hours)
.36mol/hour * 18 = a DLI of 6.48

So for cannabis, bottom threshold for optimal growth and photosynthesis is a DLI of 22 would be:
24/0 schedule: 254.6 micromoles/m2/s-1 (That’s everything done above, but the mol/hour is multiplied by 24 to give a DLI of 22)
18/6 schedule: 339.5 micromoles/m2/s-1
12/12 schedule: 509.25 micromoles/m2/s-1

For Cannabis, the Top threshold for optimal growth and photosynthesis is a DLI of 65 moles per day.
*** extremely important notice, only go up to these amounts if you are using supplemental CO2, do not go this high if you are not using supplemental CO2 as you will actually slow down photosynthesis and waste energy.

24/0 schedule: 752.31 micromoles/m2/s-1
18/6 schedule: 1003.08 micromoles/m2/s-1
12/12 schedule: 1504.6 micromoles/m2/s-1

The generally accepted guidelines for artificial light PPFD in flowering are this:
in a 12/12

PPFD of at least 510 micromoles/m2/s-1 for the low end of optimal intensity
PPFD of at least 800-1100 micromoles/m2/s-1 for perfect optimal lighting without additional CO2.
PPFD of at least 800-1500 micromoles/m2/s-1 for perfect optimal lighting WITH additional CO2.

-What I’ve found is that a good LED manufacturing company will publish this information and has made choosing what lighting I would need for my grow a breeze. It also taught me that the Wattage rating for LED’s is not what matters (The whole Watts/sq.ft thing) but you should look more for a good PPFD rating at whatever height you plan on hanging your lights at.

-When figuring out what light I want, I now have the knowledge to go through and look at these values and pick out what light is going to suit my needs based off of whether or not I’m going to use Co2.

**A note to readers: I’m not the best at presenting things in an easy to read manner, as a result this post is a work in progress as I try to improve it to deliver the best content possible. If you have any suggestions, please feel free to post them!

Credit:
I have to give credit where it is due, if I hadn’t asked @dbrn32 about some LED recommendations, I would not have found this information so easily and figured out how to piece everything together.

More on PPFD, courtesy of @dbrn32

*Actual Real World Application:
When it’s released, I plan on purchasing a SPYDR 2p LED from Fluence and below are the Manufacturers Specs.
PPF: 1580umol/s
Input Power: 632W
PPFD@6" (over a square meter): 987umol/s
PPFD@12"(over a square meter): 949umol/s

How is this going to meet my requirements? Well:
On an 18/6 Schedule, at a PPFD@12" would give me a DLI of 61.5 mol/d
This is going to require Co2 Supplementation to increase the rate of photosynthesis (otherwise that extra light is going to waste) unless we have a controller that can dim the strength of the light to lower the DLI to a level that doesn’t require Co2.

For my 12/12 schedule I would receive a DLI of of 41 at 12" but if I lowered the light to 6" it would be 42.6. Not a whole lot of difference, but it’s still more light that I can use some Co2 with if I so desired, as shown above 800-1100 umol/m2/s is still able to be done without Co2 but you can also add Co2 if you like, which I plan on doing (800-1500).

So now, if I purchase this light, to use it at full strength, I know I will have to have Co2 supplementation to my grow room in order for it to be worth it.

(Specs on the SPYDR2 series can be found here: https://2xuwao2gok1v2wn2em9n5ys8-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SPYDR-Comparision-Web-Spec.pdf)

Question to readers over a mistake I probably made: Regarding Co2 use and DLI, I know the low and high ends are correct, however Im not 100% certain at what DLI you HAVE to start using Co2 and at what minimum DLI Co2 is actually beneficial at.

6 Likes

18/6 schedule: 1003.08 micromoles/m2/s-1 <> 12/12 schedule: 1504.6 micromoles/m2/s-1 :heart_eyes:

1 Like

Nice post! The only thing that I would clarify is that the example you give on ppfd

Yes a spot measurement like that is ppfd. But it’s ppfd at the spot you are measuring, and does not reflect on the overall light intensity of your space. You would be much better using ppfd average for making any generalized statements about your intensity. For example… a single 50 watt cob could measure something like 1000 umols/s/m2 at a low height. But without taking into consideration the size of the space and intensity drop off as you move sensor, you don’t really know if you could justify supplemental co2 in the space or not.

In those situations, you can find ppfd average by dividing ppf over area. The standard is per square meter. So a light with a ppf of 600 umols per second will have a ppfd average of 600 umols per second per square meter in a 39”x39” space.

1 Like

Thanks for that! I’m a huge sucker for all of this information, and I absolutely appreciate everything you provide for this community.

1 Like

Well, I appreciate being appreciated haha! No problem!

1 Like

:popcorn::exploding_head::popcorn::exploding_head::popcorn::exploding_head:

Thank both of you. Again Chinese… but still. Someone could follow that. Or startd following my bread crumbs… nice work. N keep lighting the way

2 Likes

I’m happy to try and do my best, I’m constantly updating this post to try and make it easier to understand and provide as many materials and sources possible to the readers to help them get a better understanding if they want!

Keep it up. Wish I had researched more before I bought blurples. So many website endorsing vipra informational grow journal
Ones. But the strips and cobs are noticeably better inside an hour

1 Like

@dbrn32 you’d mentioned PPFD in a post of mine that you were helping me with advice… did a search on PPFD and found these posts. Have to say my head hurts a bit from reading it… but now the advice you gave on dead space is making more sense. My concern for adding CO2 to my grow room is also now less of a concern because I’m thinking my plants don’t get enough light to use the CO2. I will continue to use CO2, since I bought the minimal equipment for it…I now understand though that to get anywhere close to a maximized yield there is still much to be learned about lighting. Thanks

2 Likes

Probably, I also get off course on useless banter sometimes haha. I would have to be directed to the conversation to know for sure.

Lights aren’t the only thing that matters though. Yet it’s impossible to create photosynthetic energy without them, so they’re definitely up there. In my head when I lay out a space, floor space * lighting = yield potential is what I’m thinking. So putting that grow space together builds off of that. Do I want a really efficient grow? Do I absolutely need to pull the most possible out of that space? What’s my budget? Where does it make the most sense to spend my budget?

Those are all questions that need to be answered, and will likely lead to more questions that need to be answered. Very few of us nail it on the first try, so nothing hurt there. But bigger part is how you move forward right? If co2 isn’t costing anything to run, it’s certainly not hurting anything I agree. But now that you have it, what’s next? The answer may not be more equipment, it may be to make everything else more compatible to the equipment you have. I don’t try to be the light snob even though I know it seems that way sometimes lol. Just try to point out where I think you can do better.

4 Likes

Im glad this post helped you out a bit, my goal was to helo at least one person with this info and get it out there to anyone and everyone.

Keep up the good work!

1 Like