So I bought 5 gold leaf seeds from the site. Two are ready to harvest and they are very different from each other.
I was wondering the lineage of the gold leaf so I can determine if one is more heavy on either parent.
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Different phenotypes within a particular cultivar are pretty common with these hybrid strains.
I don’t know the genetics of the Gold Leaf although I’ve grown 4 or 5 of them and enjoyed them. I had only one develop smaller more sativa-like leaves when the others had big palm-fronds haha. It’s just differences within the strain.
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Do you really think there are as many real strains as there are? Or do you think they are the same things different names?
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I think there are enough folks back-checking each other that it’s pretty uncommon.
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Just randomly thought of it.lol
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Thanks, yeah, I had that happen with a lemon stomper seed but bc we knew the genetics I was able to determine one was heavier in the chemdawg lineage. I just don’t want to give my patients the wrong info. I’m not even sure what the gold leaf is supposed to be, seeing as how the two plants are totally different! Thanks.
I think the whole strain thing is much like breeding dogs, you have a bulldog with its face all pushed in, you like it so your dog humps another dog but bits face isnt pushed in? Some of the puppies have pushed in faces the rest dont. The puppies are not stable for breeding if you want pushed in faces until many successive breedings with pushed in faced dogs. Until the the offspring all have pushed in faces, its not a stable breed. So in theory, if you have weed that has many phenos it says the plants have not been open pollenated with like plants over multiple seasons. Heritage strains have been cultivated by civilizations for decades or even hundreds of years. When you plant one of these seeds the likelihood is it will look similar to irs parent. Many of these hybrids have not existed long enough to stabilize the characteristics to that level and therefore you have multiple shapes, smells, sizes etc. The real threat is that heritage ( landrace ) strains are being polluted with franken pot. Now from my experience, franken pot of today is way stronger than most heritage weed, not everyone wants wicked strong pot. Stable lines are generally easier to breed with also. It takes forever to stabilize crosses of hybrids, and its super hit and miss.
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How do you define “strain?”
One problem with the postulate that “landraces” or climatized IBLs are stable is that environmental pressures may eliminate the genotypes that express particular characteristics from the breeding pool, but their genes might still be recessive in the population. The recessive genes may continue to exist in a small proportion of the population. We can imagine a scenario where the dominant genes fail to thrive, and thus the recessive allele has a breeding advantage.
Exploring the bulldog example more, sincere dog breeders will talk about exemplary pups, and improving the breed. They evaluate each pup for characteristics (morphology, health, disposition, instinct, etc…), and decide whether or not they want to breed them down the road. The undesirable pups aren’t discarded, but instead they find loving homes. The point is that the breeders can’t expect to get uniformity, and selective breeding is an ongoing process in the maintenance of a domesticated genome.
Another interesting doggo example is hybridization, or breeding dissimilar breeds together. Breed a specific Poodle with a specific Mastiff will create uniformity among the pups from their litters. It’s often the same for cannabis, and when you see F1 crosses, one of the benefits is that the breeder might have found a cross that produces uniformity; in turn, they can promise the customer a narrower range of phenotypical expression.
I’m not disagreeing with your post. I’m only adding to it.
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Yes totally agree with you. My lame attempt was aimed primarily at those with very little understanding of how genetics work. The examples were merely intended to offer a layman glimpse into explaining why, in many cases, a " strain " being sold can have discrepancies from the description offered by the seller… If a person were to go on a weed trek in the Himalayan mountain range to some of the small villages he or she would likely see cannabis that, for the most part all looks relatively similar, with some exceptions like you pointed out recessive genes will always exist especially in open pollinated agriculture, as will climatically altered or human minipulated responses. Genetics is supposed to be plastic and able to conform to environment within reasonable tolerances.
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I hope to demystify the genetic component of growing cannabis for personal use. So many members are dealing with ridiculously restrictive plant counts, and can’t afford to be duped by misleading claims made by breeders. It’s also nice to understand how time-consuming breeding is, and how valuable good seeds are.
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Yep, its refreshing to hear another person that questions the validity of the vast majority of the seed stock available today. I cant remember what the current estimated variety is but its ludicrous. When you consider that tomatoes, peppers, corn and most staples that humans have been growing and consuming for ages have less selection these days than weed! I have catalogs from numerous seed vendors, such as Baker Creek and while there are lots of varieties, it pales in comparison to the cannabis plant these days. When you grow these vegitable plants they tend to be pretty consistent genetically because they are heritage and have been cultivated for decades without much introduction. Now we have a bonanza, a feeding frenzy of epic proportions becausebof online cannabis seed sales! Its ridiculous actually. The funny thing is, just as there is knock off Nike shoes and Prada handbags so too is there bogus bag seed being pawned off as miracle weed number 1! After all, how would the average pot grower be able to prove otherwise? Its a perfect storm.
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So, to me anyways, growing cannabis is not about the strongest pot, its mostly about getting back to the weed I smoked as a kid in the 70s. Its about trying to find an authentic representation of what it was for me in the beginning. Its also about going back to those plants that started it all, the original smells and tastes. When you grow a plant it has a distinct quality or characteristic that was unique to its line. When I think of Thai weed I envision a tall lanky plant with lo g skinny bamboo like leaves and mostly airy buds. The smells were very unique, unmistakable! I think you get where Im going with this. We all have our personal favorites or leanings, and thats what makes cannabis cultivation more than just growing some pot.
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Yeah, very few breeders take the time to explain their process or the scientific basis for their methods. When I find someone who at least tries to enlighten the community, I try to support them.
I also understand the position the breeders are in; customers want uniform, potent flowers.
I should be buying biodiverse seed stock. I’m not sure that’ll ever benefit me, but I think it’s part of being a responsible steward of this plant.
I also miss those aromas we used to get (I’m not so old as you, but I’m old enough to remember good pot being rare).
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So I never figured out what the strain was mixed with. I recently bought a “charlottes web” clone from a dispensary and had it tested. It was 19% thc and .00 something CBD so I dont think the business is as policed as we think and hope it is.
I think these new strains like platinum pineapple glue and cherry a.f. OG are definitely Frankensteins. My patients dont like them and want the “tried and true” strains. I do think in a situation the plant can have traits of both parents, just like people. I think enough people have smoked the strains to be able to come to a consensus, like the social contract.
Turns out the bud on the gold leaf of each plant was very similar even though the leaf structure was not. It was very dank and hard to trim, like I had to wash the scissors every bud. I can understand why the site doesn’t want to give out proprietary information because its not easy to do (cross-pollinate).
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Well, every seed is going to have 10 alleles from each parent, and only one will dominate the other. So for example, and I’m simplifying this a lot, your plant may get purple flowers from mom, but dad’s recessive green trait is in the DNA.
One argument towards transparency is that even if I knew Gold Leaf came from a “blueberry” mom and a “Columbian Gold” dad, I could not replicate it. The reason is that all “Blueberry” isn’t genetically identical, and Bergman used selection to pick one that imbued the right alleles to Gold Leaf. He could describe the morphology to me, and I might need to hunt through thousands of seeds to find success. And because you need to do that for dad too, now you need to cross the potential moms and dads until you get the results you want. Replicating someone else’s breeding work is REALLY hard. And there’s hardly any point either, because Bergman sells the seeds! I can just buy his seeds, and self the plant to make a reasonable facsimile if I want free seeds of my own.
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If I was a caregiver, I’d start with mother plants and make my own clones for flower production. If a cultivar isn’t working, you can replace it with a new one. But if a patient finds success with one, it’ll be available for the foreseeable future.
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Yes, thats the key, find what works and keep or improve on it, all the while maintaining the key building blocks. Once the original genetic material is gone its lost forever.
Its not that Im one of those " landrace " snobs, but I firmly believe that we are dangerously close to losing the original breeding lines of cannabis as we once knew it.
Frankly, some strange side effects have occurred with some hybrids, not all are desirable. Paranoia, anxiety, psychological issues, these things were not as common when I was younger. For me, I remember enjoying a whole joint, its smell and flavour. Some weed is so strong Id be hard pressed to be able to enjoy an entire joint let alone more than a couple tokes. Many of the original oldschool strains werent that powerful, you could smoke a few joints with your friends in a social way. Now, you need to be careful how much you smoke because your chronic friend has an unusually high tolerance!
I grow 6 strains a year for changes and all 6 have a different buzz. I’m hoping the pro’s are helping save strains. Getting ready to harvest Alaskian Purple, Peyote Critical, Maui, Jack Herer, Bruce Banner and Accapulco Gold. Good luck stay high