Some questions about what's the next step for my grow? Switch to flower?

MagicCultivator420 · May 11, 2022, 9:47pm

Hello again everyone, just thought I’d update.

So buds seem to be forming nicely (I think, remember this is my first time). Here are some pics:

RQS Critical:

Seedsman Blueberry:

RQS Amnesia Haze:

I’m quite happy with the results so far, this is day 17 since flip. Just one little problem I encountered today, the Critical’s leaves are cupping upwards, I imagine this is due to light / heat stress. Here are the heights away from the light and the DLI.

Critical:
12" away from the light, DLI 35 - 46 depending on which cola.

Blueberry:
21" away from the light, DLI 25 - 28

Amnesia Haze:
16" away from the light, DLI 23-32

I cannot raise the light anymore, so I dimmed the intensity back a bit (15%). New DLI readings:

Critical:
27 - 37

Blueberry:
22-25

Amnesia Haze:
18-32

I also increased the extractor (I have AC Infinity with the smart controller) to speed 7 from 6 to help a bit. Temp at the canopy is 23C (73F).

Am I tackling this correctly? Will the cupped leaves return to normal if all is well, or that’s permanent?

Thanks again everyone, hope you’re all doing well

MeEasy · May 11, 2022, 10:23pm

Those are some pretty hedgehogs you have there and if you have never heard of hedgehogs that’s just my dumb name for the little flowers/buds

MagicCultivator420 · May 12, 2022, 1:54pm

Thanks @MeEasy Yeah haha, I heard your hedgehog term before on this forum lol, makes perfect sense honestly.

Do you reckon I should raise the Blueberry on some bricks seeing as there’s a 9 inch difference between it’s highest point and the Critical’s highest point?

Going to do a major defoliation this weekend, gonna strip everything except for the two big fan leaves at the top cause they really bushed out again in less than a week! It’s week 3 in Nebula’s defoliation tutorial, going to try emulating that.

Cheers again for your comments and advice

MeEasy · May 12, 2022, 7:49pm

Yes most definitely lift it up to match the other one. I can’t remember what you are feeding I mention feeding because you can defoliate heavier when you are feeding synthetic nutrients than with something similar to me organic living soil because natural nutrients are considered slow release and if a plant isn’t able to get the food through their roots they have some storage in the leaves they can supplement from

MagicCultivator420 · May 13, 2022, 11:50pm

Hello again @MeEasy Thanks once again for pitching in, your help has really been invaluable with such helpful replies constantly.

Thanks, I’ll pick up some bricks on Monday after work and lift her up a bit more

I’m feeding Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect, which from what I can understand are synthetics (someone correct me if I’m wrong). Thanks also for that explanation about the plant storing reserves in it’s leaves!

So, small update, it’s only been 2 days since the last pics of the budlets forming, and. . . starting to see some glitter on the leaves next to the buds now!! I imagine these will become the future sugar leaves (yay for trim and hash and extracts! xD). Even the fan leaves at the top most are starting to get some! Here’s a pic of the one showing the glitter:

So, I’m about to go for the major defoliation like Nebula Haze shows for Week 3, and this is what I’m still confused about. These fan leaves marked with red arrows, do I leave them or trim them off? They’re the big set of fan leaves at the top of each cola, not the small ones close to the bud. From my understand, I think they should stay, but what do you guys think?

Final question, in the pic below, this branch on the right (it’s one of the 8 mains) didn’t make it above the net. Should it be removed, or since it’s a main it’s not recommended to remove it? If I have to remove it, do I cut from the red line, or the blue one lower down?

Starting to see some progress now everyone, and everyone’s help got me to where I am today, so, I really would like to give a MASSIVE Thank You to all the community! You’ve all been soooo great!

MeEasy · May 14, 2022, 12:40am

I just did a defoliation on some of my autoflowers today here’s a before n after…if you click on Homer then again on my featured topic it will take you over to see some more pictures of these and many others at different stages. I do kinda follow Nebula timing for the most part but as I said I grow all organic and I leave more leaves for the stored nutrients.

MeEasy · May 14, 2022, 12:54am

Here’s some old pictures from before I started leaving more leaves… I couldn’t find a side view before pic but you can see the after then I put a week later just to show it’s hard to take to much but I always say if you are questioning if you should cut something leave it there you can always cut it off later but you can never put anything back on them

MagicCultivator420 · May 17, 2022, 9:07pm

Hello again @MeEasy and everyone, just thought I’d update. Thanks for your posts with the before and after pics, I appreciate that and referenced them. I am going through your diary slowly, 6000+ posts will take me a while though, but I’m working on it and liking posts in the process Sorry I didn’t reply Sunday or yesterday, been fighting a crippling migraine these past 3 days and it renders me unable to do anything, finally easing off a bit today compared to how it was.

Anyway, I did the ‘major’ defoliation on Sunday, here are some pics:

RQS Critical: (look at the buds growing all down the stem! I’m loving the development on this plant!)

Seedsman Blueberry:

RQS Amnesia Haze:

What do you think? Should I have taken off more? I basically tried leaving only the big fan leaves on the top of each branch (and sometimes even snipped one from two to open up the plant more). Just left a big fan leaf or two at the bottom (I don’t know why this is done, but I see lots of growers do it so I left some) where I see that they won’t be causing shade on the below bud sites. I did the correct thing by leaving the small fan leaves attached to each bud correct? (I see yours still have these leaves from the pics you posted).

Something a bit worrying, I found the lower growth (small leaves under the net) getting black and the tips shriveling, I’ll post pics below. Is this just cause this growth wasn’t getting any light, or is there something I should be weary of here? Found it on all 3 plants:

Just for reference (and also a mental note for myself) all the pics in this post are the end of Week 3 from flip to 12/12.

Thanks again everyone, hope you all are well

Graysin · May 17, 2022, 9:12pm

In my experience it’s completely normal to see the lowest growth discolor, then get crispy and just sort of fade away into dead sad leaves. It is because they get no light and offer nothing of value to your plant. Consequently, the plant just self-consumes and reclaims the energy it can from those lower leaves. You can remove anything under the net that doesn’t appear to get any light. It won’t produce much, if anything at all, so it doesn’t hurt to remove it.

PS: those buds are looking fine!

MeEasy · May 18, 2022, 12:49am

I think you did an awesome job on them and the more times you do it and try different things the more at ease you’ll feel about it but you’ll never stop questioning yourself on whether you took to much or to little or at least I still do

As for the yellowing stuff down around the bottoms
200

MagicCultivator420 · May 18, 2022, 9:44pm

Thanks for the explanation @Graysin, glad to know it’s normal procedure for the plant to do that with the bottom leaves, does sound sad the way you described it though ‘fade away into dead sad leaves’ Thanks for also stating the buds are looking fine, it’s my first time growing, so every step is a new one for me, thanks again for your multiple posts throughout!

Thanks also @MeEasy, yes I am feeling more confident about defoliating now, especially seeing how the plants bounced back from the last one I did. Haha yeah I completely agree, that question still lingers in my head if I could have taken off more for more benefit.

So one final defoliation in Week 6 now? Or that’s it, no more defoliating till harvest? I read about growers defoliating 3 weeks apart (on growweedeasy if I’m not mistaken), some do it before the flip then again 3 weeks later, others do it at Week 3 and again at Week 6. I didn’t really follow this pattern, I defoliated exactly before the flip, then every week till now (end of Week 3), so did 4 defoliations so far (despite only the final one being ‘major’).

Cheers again everyone, you’ve REALLY been so great, and so patient with me. Best wishes to the whole community!

Graysin · May 18, 2022, 10:37pm

That works fine. Honestly any defol method works fine. The goal is having a purpose when you remove growth. If you’re just doing it because the internet said so, that’s pretty much the only time it’s a bad idea.

If your plant has too many fan leaves, and air flow is getting compromised, pull some off. If they’re too big and rubbing up against eachother, also fine to pull some off. My rule of thumb is if it’s creating a moisture pocket or if the leaf is casting a bigger shadow than it is absorbing light, it’s time to go.

Because I am a lazy grower, I defoliate heavily twice in my grow - once right around the initial flip or a week after depending on how dense the foliage is - and again a week or two before harvest. During both of these, I will remove every single fan leaf from her - it’s a higher stress method but I have yet to have a plant not bounce back.

MagicCultivator420 · May 18, 2022, 10:56pm

Thanks again @Graysin Oh yeah, I always defoliated with a purpose, plants were looking very bushy each time (probably cause I have 3 crammed in a 4x2). It’s amazing how they’ll bush back up in a week, which is why I was defoliating every week (albeit on the lighter side).

Yep, this is all brilliant advice and what I have been trying to follow as far as which leaves to remove. Thanks!

Dang, every fan leaf? Wow, these plants sure are resilient! I’ll definitely have to experiment with more aggressive defoliation as I get more confident! Thanks again!

Graysin · May 18, 2022, 11:13pm

Absolutely! It’s surprising what they can endure.

MagicCultivator420 · May 27, 2022, 11:22pm

Hello again everyone, just thought I’d update and mention some issues I’m facing. Let’s start with the update, these pics are today, which is 2 days away from completing Week 5 from flip to 12/12:

RQS Critical (I’m loving this plant!!) She’s frosting up quite nicely I think! Even the fan leaves are getting some frost! :

Seedsman Blueberry:

RQS Amnesia Haze:

Tent full view:

I would like to apologize in advance for the essay, I know there’s quite a few questions/reading.
The top of the Critical (plant on the far left) is just 12" away from the light. Light intensity is at 80%. I wanted to increase this, but temps (explained below) and the light being so close to the Critical kept me from doing so.
So, these are some questions I have if someone could please shed some light. I really don’t want to ruin this now after getting so close, plus all the time, effort and money I put into this grow (around 300 USD worth of Advanced Nutrients), all the equipment (over 2K) and electricity bills (I thought one of the perks of growing was to save money ):

Does everything still seem to be going well on track for end of Week 5? It’s clear as day that the Blueberry is lagging far behind the Critical, especially when they have a similar flowering time It only ended up with 5 colas reaching over the net, while the other 2 plants have at least 10, and as you can see, bud development along the stem is massively different. I’m also noticing that it’s the only plant from 3 without any of the buds starting to go amber (there are some small amber hairs on the top of the Critical and Amnesia Haze).
I’m getting quite worried about temp/humidity. I’m with a dehumidifier on 24/7, and while the humidity in the closet / box room dropped to a range of 44 - 52%, the tent humidity varies between 55 - 66%. I’m noticing the humidity at the top of the canopy is around 10% more than the humidity at the bottom of the tent. I have 3 fans in the tent (1 blowing directly on top of the pots, 1 on top of the canopy as you can see in the full tent pics, and 1 blowing on the light to keep it cool). These are all at speed 1 from 2, should these be increased (except for the 1 on the light since it’s cool enough to the touch)? Won’t it cause wind stress or dry the coco too much having them blowing so hard and also the one on the canopy so close to the colas?
Temp suddenly rose to 29C (85F) in the tent with lights on, drops to 26C (79F) with lights off. Is this worrying? Seems a bit on the high side for flower doesn’t it? (and it’s still end of May, so it’s bound to get hotter till harvest which is at least another month I reckon, and the Amnesia Haze has longer than that!)
About a week ago, I started seeing these very small white insects in the coco of the Critical. Like 1mm insects with 6 legs, so definitely not larvae. They rise to the top when I water, and scurry back down into the coco as soon as the water gets absorbed in a few seconds. Scraping off the top layer of the coco with a toothpick reveals them again, which they’ll dig down again as soon as I do. I tried taking a pic of them but it’s useless, they’re too small to make out with my crappy phone camera. I’m thinking from research I did, that they’re springtails, cause they’re jumping as soon as I try to grab / squish them. Lots of research I did says they’re harmless, but just want to see what the community’s opinion here is on these buggers. I can’t say I’m seeing any adverse effect on the plant, and they’re just in the coco, definitely none of them on the stalk/leaves.
I reckon it’s time for another major defoliation? I just did 1 2 weeks ago, too soon? It sure is looking bushy again in there though…
When/if I do this major defoliation, do I throw the fan leaves away, or do I keep them this time? They’ve got quite some trichomes on them, and I don’t know if these could be stored and used with the trim later (for hash or some other extract I decide to make), or if the trichomes on them are still not developed enough to be of any use?
The Critical states it has a flowering time of 7 - 8 weeks, while the Blueberry has a flowering time of 8 - 9 weeks (Amnesia Haze is 10 - 12 weeks so I’m not too concerned about that one yet). Do I count the weeks from flip, or from when I started to see the flowers forming (close to 2 weeks in?). I’m asking about this because one of my nutes is called Overdrive which I need to start 2 weeks before flush, so I need to time this correctly.
I’m still watering once a day this far in, I see some people water more than once in flower. I water till runoff each time around 30 mins after lights on. The plants’ drinking requirements till the runoff appears varies greatly:
Critical: 2.75 litres
Blueberry: 1 litre
Amnesia Haze: 1.75 litres
Just wondering if I’m still doing this correctly or if frequency needs to be increased?

I again would like to apologize for all the questions and the long post. I know it’s quite a hefty read, so I really am sorry for that. Just tagging @MeEasy and @Graysin cause you’ve both helped me multiple times in this topic, but anyone’s advice will definitely be welcome of course! Thanks so much again everyone, wishing a happy weekend to all!

Graysin · May 27, 2022, 11:52pm

Everything looks good to my eye. Even if the strains have an identical estimated flower time, you may have gotten a “fast” pheno of one and a “slow” pheno of the other. They could actually be identical strains from the same see pack and still be different.

Sorry - I’ll answer the rest later in detail but except for the bugs potentially, everything seems in order.

MagicCultivator420 · May 28, 2022, 11:27pm

Hello again @Graysin Thanks for such a quick reply. Awesome, that’s good to know that there’s still hope that the Blueberry will amount to something! Thanks!

Awesome, that’s good to hear, thanks again. When convenient for you don’t worry, and please don’t apologize, you’re the one doing me a favour after all.

Graysin · May 29, 2022, 12:58am

Is the humidity outside the tent higher or lower than inside the tent naturally? If it’s higher, then decreasing the speed/airflow on your intake and exhaust fans will help keep the dehuey from having to work too hard to keep the humidity low in the tent.

It’s a bit high but not terrible.

If they aren’t concerning, no big. If you’re worried they might become a problem, diatomaceous earth on the top of the coco surface will help kill most pests.

If it’s lookin bushy, take em off - trust your gut

The fan leaves usually don’t have enough on em for me to worry about it, but if you wanna keep them, a gallon ziploc baggie can hold a lot and you can throw it in the freezer.

That’s the right answer for when to count from.

I only water once a day, unless it’s in something stupid small like a solo cup.

MagicCultivator420 · May 30, 2022, 9:54pm

Hello again @Graysin, thanks so much for your detailed reply, you answered most of my questions spot on with attention to detail, and I really do appreciate that and all your efforts. I’ll reply to the points I need to build up on, rather than each quote, to try keeping this concise and shorter, but I really do appreciate you pitching in on each point.

Humidity in the room is around 10 - 15% less than it is inside the tent. I’m not using an intake fan, I’m using passive intake with a 6 inch ducting at the bottom of the tent. Could this be the problem? There is lots of negative pressure as the tent walls are really sucking in though. I’ll be sure to brace these next grow.

I was also thinking of opting for diatomaceous earth, but I’m also getting these buggers in the runoff as of yesterday and today, so they’re also deep into the coco not just at the top now. Read that diatomaceous earth isn’t so effective when wet, so figured I’d sprinkle some on the top before lights out? Have to re-apply each day? I think it’ll get washed away with every watering (maybe that’s a good thing if it sinks into the coco so it kills some that are deep in)? It won’t harm the roots or cause any issues to the plant? Just curious, what happens to the dead bugs in the coco then? Won’t they rot and could infect the roots?

So, here’s the update after yesterday’s massive defoliation. I’m quite happy with the way it turned out, much more light is entering towards the lower buds

RQS Critical after defoliation:

Seedsman Blueberry after defoliation:

RQS Amnesia Haze after defoliation:

Here’s one of the colas of the RQS Critical, I’m really loving this plant so much, looks like it’s going to be my biggest producer:

Here’s a pic of the whole tent showing the sides of the plants, look how tiny the Blueberry is From left to right: Critical - Blueberry - Amnesia Haze

And here’s a pic of each plant’s bud:
RQS Critical:

Seedsman Blueberry:

RQS Amnesia Haze:

Rough estimate to how long you think the Critical has left till harvest? I reckon it’s the closest one (and also the one with the shortest flowering time). Oddly enough, although the Amnesia Haze has a longer flowering time than the Blueberry, it seems to be further along with more amber. Real shame about the Blueberry, I really don’t think it’s going to yield well, which sucks, cause I’m more of an Indica guy, so I was really looking forward to that one!

And, I imagine this is heat stress yeah? This was before the defol. I’m thinking this is heat stress and not a nute problem cause it’s only on the top leaves:
Browning edges:

Curling edges:

Thanks again, and sorry I didn’t update/reply yesterday, that defoliation took close to 4 hours! Finished at 10pm. I can’t open the tent sides or back with it being in a corner, so getting to the back of the plants is a real chore!

Cheers once again

Graysin · May 30, 2022, 10:24pm

None, DE is pretty safe. Will eventually break down into silica.

Your microbe colonies will probably eat them.

Not likely, see above.

Righto. Sprinkle it on top between waterings.

Then all I’d do is increase fan speed to increase airflow. Pull in that lower humidity air. If your fan is already at max, it may be that you should get an intake fan - I’ve never needed to run one, my humidity is perpetually low.

4-6 weeks, probably. But I could be wrong.

Yep, sure looks like it.

Everyone looks good and happy, though. Keep it up!