Ceramic Metal Halide

Show Your Grow Grow Journals
21

Yeah, I totally get your interest in these lights. I just want some to understand that can’t afford the super expensive LEDs or these very expensive lights, that there are alternatives.

But certainly, if you don’t want to have to do a lot of research to find a good LED on e-bay, or to be able to build one yourself, and you want to go with an established name brand for the reliability, then do so. And that brings up another good point, from the research standpoint, I have read there are other CMH/LEC brands that are much more affordable than these ones. The reflector that comes with them might not be quite as good, but the performance is close to as good and worth the savings in start up cost. Just something to consider if you do decide to go the CMH/LEC route.

~MacG

1 Like
22

Just posted on of those cheaper ones lol. Roughly $200 after shipping for a 400w

1 Like
23

Thanks for fixing that link :smile:

24

That’s part of my job, no problem, lol.

25

I’m wondering what brand/model/wattage LED would be comparable for the same price?

I’m not arguing I just would like to know.

26

It isn’t necessarily about wattage with LEDs. It isn’t even necessarily about the perfect spectrum. That is one of the reasons the LED light I helped my friend pick out works better than the MARS II Hydro. Now I’ll admit it is manufactured by the same company as the MARS Hydro, TopLED, but it uses a different spectrum, a spectrum ripped off from an older model Black Dog LED, if I remember correctly, and the same model has been found under different names, I guess they haven’t decided on what they are going to name it yet.

With any light source, it is actually about usable photons reaching the leaves. red heavy light tends to have more photons in total reaching the leaves, but blue light has better penetration. And so it is really about the amount of usable photons that can reach and interact with the chlorophyll in the leaves and buds.

The light I found for my friend actually uses about 462 actual watts and is a little blue heavy compared to many LED flowering lights, but the light is intended for the full grow and is considered a full spectrum light. It also has significantly more 3500k white light LED diodes, for the same reason your LEC uses a similar Kelvin color rating.

A lot of the new LEDs are starting to use a significant amount of white LEDs, not only does this make the light more aesthetically pleasing to the human eye, but it also has a beneficial effect on chlorophyll absorption and activity. And even though it is only now starting to become common place in manufactured LED systems, and becoming very popular in the home brew DIY market, it is something I used in my own modified units from the beginning and have argued for – for over two years, lol.

I’m sure if you search this site hard enough you’ll find a post dated over or at least about 2 years ago where I spoke about just exactly this need in LEDs. After all the sun looks mostly like sightly blue white light, about 5500-6500K depending on various factors, and that was the crux of my argument way back then, why not try to replicate the conditions the plant has evolved under.

If you are really interested, I might be able to find some you-tube videos where some of the home brew experts discuss the technical aspects of exactly why they are using such LEDs in their own home made systems.

~MacG

4 Likes
27

I know it’s a little old but could you inform me about this system, cash is tight

28

@Countryboyjvd1971 over here if you are curious it actually is a topic mentioned few times :wink:

1 Like
29

Ty @Donaldj will take a look bro

30

@JTheH

Hey…
Don’t do that CMH light… they use an old junky inefficient magnetic ballast that is noisy and gets hot.
There is not much more advantage to using CMH or LEC, which are basically exactly the same thing.
They actually run on those old inefficient ballast.
I don’t even think that they will wire 240.

Here, read this.

Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) & Light Emitting Ceramic (LEC) Grow Lights

These are actually just two names for the same thing. This type of metal halide bulb uses ceramic as part of the lamp just like an HPS. As a result, CMH bulbs are more efficient than regular MH lights (though still not as efficient as HPS bulbs).

Lately I’ve been seeing CMH grow lights these labeled as “LEC” lights, which stands for “Light Emitting Ceramics.” Since LECs are the same thing as CMH lights, personally I think the term “LEC” is used to make this seem like some new type of light, and in order to ride on the popularity of LEDs…

“LEC” and “CMH” both refer to Ceramic Metal Halide grow lights, which is a type of HID light that is a bit more efficient than a regular Metal Halide light.

There is actually no difference between LEC, and HPS.
I am running an enhanced Spectrum HPS bulb from Growbright at the moment.
It also emits the blue spectrum. I used it all through veg, and am almost 6 weeks into flowering right now… the LUX is impressive.
Just look back through some of my posts to see pictures of my grow

Just go to the HTG.com website to buy HTG products. They are great people with great customer service.
I am currently running their 600-watt system. It is a Digital Greenhouse dimmable digital ballast.
Go to the light kits and you can choose your own bulbs, hoods, timers, and hangers in one package.
Yes you have to change out bulbs, but the growth with this light is impressive. I started out with new clones on 50%, moved up to 75% for veg… and I am now flowering them on 100%.
As far as heat goes, I use a 6 inch air cooled Hood. My hood has a 6 inch fan on it, but I do not vent the heat outside of my grow room.
My grow room stays between 68, and 72 degrees with no additional heat or cooling.
I wired my light for 240 volts, so I’m only drawing 1.2 amps, compared to 4.2 at 110 volts… so, cheaper than CMH on the electric bill.

Try all of that with your CMH.

Go check it out…

“Mod” edit:
Here is a HTG CMH/LEC, also updated the above link to amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/HTG-Supply-400-Watt-Complete-Included/dp/B01CKKFGNS/?tag=greenrel-20

31

Hate to say it but they have upgraded to digital ballasts for them adapters to use standard fixtures so your old shades and side by side grow studies have proven them to be superior to equal watt MH HPS with higher (PAR) the ballasts cost about 200 bulbs around 100 they grow better than a 400w hps with same foot print as 600w the technology has improved vastly. As well the new ballasts are dimmable I am sure there are still many of the old ones for sale cheap but since I have all cords and shades already it would be easy ballast and bulb change for most using HID already.
Most of the local growers in my area are raving about them at the hydro shop but it’s all a matter of preference you have to remember when Leds first came out they took years to evolve into what they are today CMH has been around and evolving for longer the ballasts also can be ordered 240v or 120
HPS also doesn’t provide UV which helps prevent bugs mold and increase trichs the plants natural UV protection a strong selling point of leds. Don’t get me wrong I love HID lights and use MH HPS now but I can see myself buying one of these to run very soon since after spending last week reading up on them watching grows done with them side by side same strain same hydro res I think I would benefit from a couple.
And just to save some confusion PAR and lumen are 2 different things Plant Available Radiation and visible light if we get into lumen per watt they are around 120 lumen per watt better than a 400w HPS
So for me it’s just logical to try worst case new veg light :wink:

2 Likes
32

@Donaldj

I get what you’re saying…
I researched CMH also.

I had already bought the system I have, and didn’t want to switch over.
So the guys at HTG told me about this bulb.
It’s pretty much identical to CMH.

AgroMax 600w HPS

This is a premium high output spectrally enhanced horticultural bulb for sale and an unbelievably low price. This 600 watt High Output HPS bulb emits 95,000 lumens - standard 600w HPS bulbs which emit only 80,000 lumens. Perfect for 600 watt HPS grow light systems This bulb gives you a higher light output which equates into faster / more plant growth and ultimately higher plant yields. Fits all standard 600 watt HPS systems.

95,000 LUMENS!

UNIVERSAL POSITION - operates in any position including horizontal

One Year Warranty

Spec: S106 type lamp, Mogul based

COMPARABLE TO HORTILUX, AGROSUN, SUNMASTER Brand bulbs!

About the bulb:

Designed Specifically for PLANT GROWTH
Brighter than Standard HPS lamps
Increased Violet and Blue Lighting Spectrum Engineered to Enhance Natural Plant Growth
Creates a More Correct Balance of Red and Blue/Violet Energy for Increased Photosynthesis
High Output and Adjusted Spectrum Delivers Superior Performance.

33

I just finished an auto grow in my 3x3x7 tent under my Sun Systems 315.
Total harvest dry was 19.6 ounces.

Details here:

2 Likes
34

results like that be hard to say these lights don’t do what they say this is a 315w not a 600 or 1000w which is the whole point and the best thing I keep hearing is the penetration they seem to hit lower limbs far better than standard HPS or LED aswell leaf growth even in flower seems healthier

2 Likes
35

1.75 grams per watt is fine by me! :slight_smile:

3 Likes
37

I think the point @Donaldj is making, is that you could potentially double your grams per watt, using half the wattage and getting the same results with the newer CMH/LEC technology.

I think 2 to 2.5 grams per actual watt consumed by the light sounds like a even better deal, I get nearly that with my LED system.

~MacG

2 Likes
38

2 to 2.5 grams per watt is awesome.
Mine was a soil grow at 1.75 per.

2 Likes
39

yeah, I’m doing temperature controlled DWC without CO2 supplimentation

2 Likes
40

I wouldn’t go out and buy a sunsystem all in one knowing I can get nice digital ballast sent to my door for $200-250 and a bulb and adapter is around $100. I like the dimming option and ease of change over if like me you have a home made grow box with shades built in it’s as simple as swapping plugs and changing bulbs. I suppose for someone just starting the shade combo may do the trick indeed.

I guess my biggest point is for someone like me accustomed to HID lighting it isn’t reinventing the wheel so to speak it’s reducing power use without having to learn an entire new system. Still being able to see my ladies in real light a slight reduction in cost to run and cooling I have found dropping from 1000w-400w incredibly changed my routines and increased grow times. If I can find a way to gain back some of that yield and growth rates without adding to costs I am all over it.
Keep in mind I am a hobby grower a single oz a month covers my use anything extra goes to cover expenses but I also am a long term grower so not planning to moth ball my gear every 6 months. With that being said I also like to experiment with my growing so I am always looking into new technology and methods

3 Likes
41

Amazon has some nice HPS lights with digital ballasts, I considered them and opted out for LED’s.